# Need help convert bmk 5449-12-7 to free base A-oil



## T0R

I know there are multible topics already but it is totaly unclear and they al say different things

cas 5449-12-7 is verry cheap and verry easy to buy 

I have reseve mine but I realy need the right info . 

is it possible to post this synthesis from scratch to free base A-oil

or if it is to much trouble point me to the right info plz thx


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## HIGGS BOSSON

From BMK Glycidic Acid you can obtain BMK. 


http://bbzzzsvqcrqtki6umym6itiixfhni37ybtt7mkbjyxn2pgllzxf2qgyd.onion/threads/bmk-glycidate-cas-5413-05-8.757/




 Amphetamine from P2P (BMK) (phenyl-2-propanone)


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## TJD

Hi have you got a step by step how to turn BMK to A oil


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## T0R

TJD said:


> Hi have you got a step by step how to turn BMK to A oil



TJD
no , I dont


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## T0R

HIGGS BOSSON said:


> From BMK Glycidic Acid you can obtain BMK.
> 
> 
> http://bbzzzsvqcrqtki6umym6itiixfhni37ybtt7mkbjyxn2pgllzxf2qgyd.onion/threads/bmk-glycidate-cas-5413-05-8.757/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amphetamine from P2P (BMK) (phenyl-2-propanone)



HIGGS BOSSON
this is an verry old topic link you provide here . 
it is not useable anymore becouse off wrong info 
also it is a different cas bmk.


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## T0R

.....


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## Wizzkid

Apparently phosphoric acid is the best route for this cas I’m being told. Using HCL is getting very small results. Anyone with more info on phosphoric route would be welcomed ?


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## G.Patton

Saul said:


> it is not useable anymore becouse off wrong info



SaulHi, Soul. Where is wrong info? You can make bmk 5449-12-7 to P2P and than to amph. What the problem? You can't understand or what? Higgs has sen't you solution.


Wizzkid said:


> Apparently phosphoric acid is the best route for this cas I’m being told. Using HCL is getting very small results. Anyone with more info on phosphoric route would be welcomed ?


What synthesis do you mean?


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## Wizzkid

G.Patton said:


> Hi, Soul. Where is wrong info? You can make bmk 5449-12-7 to P2P and than to amph. What the problem? You can't understand or what? Higgs has sen't you solution.
> 
> What synthesis do you mean?



G.PattonJust this cas into BMK using phosphoric. I understand from the link in the thread the basics but looking for ratios and times or as much info as possible


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## G.Patton

Wizzkid said:


> Just this cas into BMK using phosphoric. I understand from the link in the thread the basics but looking for ratios and times or as much info as possible



WizzkidActually, I've never heard about method which you mentioned. Can you share your information source?


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## Wizzkid

G.Patton said:


> Actually, I've never heard about method which you mentioned. Can you share your i nformation source?



G.PattonIt’s actually all on one of the pinned threads about apaan conversion. Second from the bottom. It briefly mentions phosphoric acid conversion but doesn’t go into detail. I mistakenly said it was in this thread but I think I must of had a few threads open. Anyway after having issues with this cas I spoke to the supplier and they said using phosphoric acid will get better results than hcl.With this cas.


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## MadHatter

Wizzkid said:


> It’s actually all on one of the pinned threads about apaan conversion. Second from the bottom. It briefly mentions phosphoric acid conversion but doesn’t go into detail



WizzkidBut ... that's conversion from APAAN to BMK? This CAS is BMK gllycidate, is it not?


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## G.Patton

Wizzkid said:


> It’s actually all on one of the pinned threads about apaan conversion. Second from the bottom.



WizzkidYou are right, I forgot about it.


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## T0R

G.Patton said:


> Hi, Soul. Where is wrong info? You can make bmk 5449-12-7 to P2P and than to amph. What the problem? You can't understand, or what? Higgs has sent' you solution.
> 
> What synthesis do you mean?



G.Patton
dear G.patton , 
verry sorry for the late replay I was on holiday I check now all messages and replay you after


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## T0R

Wizzkid said:


> Apparently phosphoric acid is the best route for this cas I’m being told. Using HCL is getting very small results. Anyone with more info on phosphoric route would be welcomed ?



Wizzkid
I had already found this out myself because hydrochloric acid has a much too low boiling point. formic acid also has a boiling temperature that is too low.
for this cas we need minimum 140°c so then we need phosphoric acid boiling point 150°c

this is what i meant by wrong methods and they are still online here.


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## Castlebar

Saul said:


> I had already found this out myself because hydrochloric acid has a much too low boiling point. formic acid also has a boiling temperature that is too low.
> for this cas we need minimum 140°c so then we need phosphoric acid boiling point 150°c
> 
> this is what i meant by wrong methods and they are still online here.



SaulHi Saul I've got the same product and looking for help/instructions to convert to oil how did you get on did you find the way?


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## btcboss2022

Castlebar said:


> Hi Saul I've got the same product and looking for help/instructions to convert to oil how did you get on did you find the way?



CastlebarI think don't try to search the info in the forum because I posted a detailed process to convert it that CAS to oil even videos were uploaded.


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## Castlebar

btcboss2022 said:


> I think don't try to search the info in the forum because I posted a detailed process to convert it that CAS to oil even videos were uploaded.



btcboss2022Thanks btcboss2022 where can I find the videos please


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## btcboss2022

http://bbzzzsvqcrqtki6umym6itiixfhni37ybtt7mkbjyxn2pgllzxf2qgyd.onion/threads/need-help-converting-5449-12-7-and-20320-59-6.1635/page-3#post-11182


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## Castlebar

Thanks when I click link shows error


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## T0R

Castlebar said:


> Hi Saul I've got the same product and looking for help/instructions to convert to oil how did you get on did you find the way?



Castlebar
yes iam now making my first test with 250gr cas 5449-12-7 and phosphoric acid boiling point 150°c
I dont wanna use to much water to solve the pouder becouse the boiling point goes down then. 
dont be to greety with the phosphoric acid . the amount off water use to solve the pouder I add extra in phosphoric

1 kg ap 0.5 water 1.2 phorsphor ( so here I use an extra 0.5liter phosphoric )
140 degrees 5 hours with agitator
You have to get 140 degrees at a lower temperature you get dirty oil
(thx to brombeer88)


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## T0R

Damn can edit.

Yes, I am now making my first test with 250gr CAS 5449-12-7 and phosphoric acid boiling point 150°c
I don't want to use too much water to solve the powder because the boiling point goes down then.
Don't be too greedy with the phosphoric acid. The amount off water use to solve the powder I add extra in phosphoric

1 kg app 0.5 water 1.2 phosphor 85% strong (so here I use an extra 0.5liter phosphoric)
140 degrees 5 hours with agitator
You have to get 140 degrees, at a lower temperature you get dirty oil
(thanks to brombeer88)

edit

if you use 75% strong phosphor, you need minimum 10% extra to become the same effect
so 1.2liters is then 1.4 liter minimum


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## btcboss2022

Castlebar said:


> Thanks when I click link shows error



CastlebarYou need to do it in tor browser.


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## T0R

After 2 hours cooking 147°c looking good

open in tor 




http://bbzzzsvqcrqtki6umym6itiixfhni37ybtt7mkbjyxn2pgllzxf2qgyd.onion/attachments/yvzu2lobd7-jpg.6136/?hash=19eaa128fb853103089ca8458b440fd5


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## T0R

After more than 4 hours cooking, it looks like this



http://bbzzzsvqcrqtki6umym6itiixfhni37ybtt7mkbjyxn2pgllzxf2qgyd.onion/attachments/ye7b2svaix-jpg.6138/?hash=28073778566ac037c65c9126ef26b3f0


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## T0R

Problem after 6 hours cooking, my metal inox overhead sering tool completely dissolved in acid .
there is nothing left off it . I read here on the forum some guy use it all the time lol .
maybe he believes that himself . 
so what to do now with it ?


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## UWe9o12jkied91d

Saul said:


> Problem after 6 hours cooking, my metal inox overhead sering tool completely dissolved in acid .
> there is nothing left off it . I read here on the forum some guy use it all the time lol .
> maybe he believes that himself .
> so what to do now with it ?



SaulI don't think anybody is using stainless to stir conc. acid solutions for more than a few hours lol.In a very broad sense reacting an unsubstituted metal with an acid will react to form the respective salt.
You need either HDPE bar + pallet, or a new identical inox but with PTFE (Teflon) coating or epoxy coating.


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## ChingShih

@Saul what were the results you obtained from experiment?
On how much BMK powder you started this experiment?
And how much p2p oil you obtained?


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## T0R

Thanks for your answer. I think I put my mixing tool too deep in the flask and my heat source was gas 
the rod is not damage, it looks only a little black now. 
it would be nice if I can connect HDPE bar + pallet to the one I have
to absorb sensitivity of the shaft. My shaft is 6 mm and my mixer also can handle max 6 mm

can I still use the liquid? there are still small pieces of undissolved metal in what at first looks like gold.
the strange thing is that these pieces float to the top in the liquid so in the part of the liquid I need
maybe use a filter or does someone have another suggestion thank you


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## T0R

ChingShih said:


> @Saul what were the results you obtained from experiment?
> On how much BMK powder you started this experiment?
> And how much p2p oil you obtained?



ChingShih
it looked very promising before the metal started to dissolve. I think the result has changed because of this . it's still in the flask until I know if I can solve the problem


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## UWe9o12jkied91d

Saul said:


> Thanks for your answer. I think I put my mixing tool too deep in the flask and my heat source was gas
> the rod is not damage, it looks only a little black now.
> it would be nice if I can connect HDPE bar + pallet to the one I have
> to absorb sensitivity of the shaft. My shaft is 6 mm and my mixer also can handle max 6 mm
> 
> can I still use the liquid? there are still small pieces of undissolved metal in what at first looks like gold.
> the strange thing is that these pieces float to the top in the liquid so in the part of the liquid I need
> maybe use a filter or does someone have another suggestion thank you



SaulProceed as normal IMO.If the inox got corroded all that is formed is probably some ferric and ferrous phosphate.Insoluble in water so that is why it's maybe behaving the way you're describing.


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## T0R

this is how it looks now. you see the metal peaces in it . a real shame Iam feeling lost off it.



http://bbzzzsvqcrqtki6umym6itiixfhni37ybtt7mkbjyxn2pgllzxf2qgyd.onion/attachments/hpabfgldva-jpg.6141/?hash=ad1e80fa5ae1796e0eb6cdfa6ac6e97d


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## btcboss2022

Saul said:


> Problem after 6 hours cooking, my metal inox overhead sering tool completely dissolved in acid .
> there is nothing left off it . I read here on the forum some guy use it all the time lol .
> maybe he believes that himself .
> so what to do now with it ?



SaulYou only need to discard bottom layer and wash with H2O the oil layer, this oil has a very good color, better than mine ;-) I can't find the way to put my mixture at 140C in large scale, my mixture don't get higher than 120-123C even I put reactor temp at 200C.


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## G.Patton

Saul said:


> this is how it looks now. you see the metal peaces in it . a real shame Iam feeling lost off it.
> 
> 
> 
> http://bbzzzsvqcrqtki6umym6itiixfhni37ybtt7mkbjyxn2pgllzxf2qgyd.onion/attachments/hpabfgldva-jpg.6141/?hash=ad1e80fa5ae1796e0eb6cdfa6ac6e97d



SaulHi, looks nice. What is the problem to filter or distill it?


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## T0R

G.Patton said:


> Hi, looks nice. What is the problem to filter or distill it?



G.Patton
I don't know what to do with those metal remains floating above. They have changed from gold color to black. Lots of black dots .


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## G.Patton

Saul said:


> I don't know what to do with those metal remains floating above. They have changed from gold color to black. Lots of black dots .



SaulDid you try my suggestions? I'm sure that distillation will help you 100%.


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## T0R

btcboss2022 said:


> I can't find the way to put my mixture at 140C in large scale, my mixture don't get higher than 120-123C even I put reactor temp at 200C.



btcboss2022
your boiling point is now 123°c so even if you give 500°c heat it will not rise. I think you should add some sulfuric acid to raise the boiling point.
boiling temperature of sulfuric acid 96% pure is 320°c


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## T0R

G.Patton said:


> Did you try my suggestions? I'm sure that distillation will help you 100%.



G.PattonHello smart brain,

this is a stupid question for you, but I'm going to ask it.
So I distill the upper layer only, or everything together?

Edit
all the metal is gone this morning, so maybe it is not needed anymore?


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## serialz

Saul said:


> Hello smart brain,
> 
> this is a stupid question for you, but I'm going to ask it.
> So I distill the upper layer only, or everything together?
> 
> Edit
> all the metal is gone this morning, so maybe it is not needed anymore?



SaulHello,

Use a separation funnel. Keep the top part and distill only that part.

Maybe you can do an additional solvent extraction for the "green" part and then evaporate the solvent and finally distill this additional part. But I'm not sure that the time versus the yield of this last extraction is useful.


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## T0R

this morning I decided to do it differently.
I wanted to raise my cooking temperature even more. so I had added 150ml of sulfuric acid 96%. now my liquid boiled over 170°c I let it boil for two and a half hours ( see video )



http://bbzzzsvqcrqtki6umym6itiixfhni37ybtt7mkbjyxn2pgllzxf2qgyd.onion/data/video/6/6155-282d1fad0ec5cac405cfb61445dfc330.mp4



this is the same flask from yesterday with the same content



http://bbzzzsvqcrqtki6umym6itiixfhni37ybtt7mkbjyxn2pgllzxf2qgyd.onion/attachments/rzobp6hnwl-jpg.6156/?hash=74f916dcd865a35218c5a34fd9878307





http://bbzzzsvqcrqtki6umym6itiixfhni37ybtt7mkbjyxn2pgllzxf2qgyd.onion/attachments/v2qafmtf69-jpg.6157/?hash=74f916dcd865a35218c5a34fd9878307


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## serialz

Saul said:


> this morning I decided to do it differently.
> I wanted to raise my cooking temperature even more. so I had added 150ml of sulfuric acid 96%. now my liquid boiled over 170°c I let it boil for two and a half hours ( see video )
> 
> 
> 
> http://bbzzzsvqcrqtki6umym6itiixfhni37ybtt7mkbjyxn2pgllzxf2qgyd.onion/data/video/6/6155-282d1fad0ec5cac405cfb61445dfc330.mp4
> 
> 
> 
> this is the same flask from yesterday with the same content
> 
> 
> 
> http://bbzzzsvqcrqtki6umym6itiixfhni37ybtt7mkbjyxn2pgllzxf2qgyd.onion/attachments/rzobp6hnwl-jpg.6156/?hash=74f916dcd865a35218c5a34fd9878307
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://bbzzzsvqcrqtki6umym6itiixfhni37ybtt7mkbjyxn2pgllzxf2qgyd.onion/attachments/v2qafmtf69-jpg.6157/?hash=74f916dcd865a35218c5a34fd9878307



SaulExcellent

Keep us informed about the next steps


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## G.Patton

Saul said:


> this is a stupid question for you, but I'm going to ask it.
> So I distill the upper layer only, or everything together?



SaulOily layer of course


Saul said:


> all the metal is gone this morning, so maybe it is not needed anymore?


What did you do for this? They just dissolve?


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## ChingShih

@Saul please post your yield

How much grams of powder you used and how much ml of pure oil you got back.

And why did you add sulfuric acid to it? Where did you heard this?


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## T0R

G.Patton said:


> Oily layer of course
> 
> What did you do for this? They just dissolve?



G.Pattonhello Patton 

yes they just dissolve I think they use verry bad quality stainless steel . 
the rod is ok this picture is how it looks when it was new


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## T0R

ChingShih said:


> @Saulwhy did you add sulfuric acid to it? Where did you hear this?



ChingShih
It was just thinking by myself. And I had nothing to lose for trying . 

I post final results when I have them .


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## serialz

Saul said:


> hello Patton
> 
> yes they just dissolve I think they use verry bad quality stainless steel .
> the rod is ok this picture is how it looks when it was new



SaulUse teflon, otherwise it will always be the same result.
There is no such thing as good or bad stainless steel with strong acid. HCl, H2SO4, HBr, HNO3 etc. It will always be the same result. 10€ on Aliexpress...


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## T0R

serialz said:


> Use teflon, otherwise it will always be the same result.
> There is no such thing as good or bad stainless steel with strong acid. HCl, H2SO4, HBr, HNO3 etc. It will always be the same result. 10€ on Aliexpress...
> View attachment 6167



serialz
yes my friend I order today but it is more expensive 24€ with plug for flask 29


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## SpeeD

1. What does a-oil mean?
2. What is 1kg ap, is it apaan?
3. Are you done? Phenylacetone?

1 kg ap 0.5 water 1.2 phorsphor ( so here I use an extra 0.5liter phosphoric ) 140 degrees 5 hours with agitator
You have to get 140 degrees at a lower temperature you get dirty oil
Saul​


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## T0R

SpeeD said:


> 1. What does a-oil mean? Amphetamine free base
> 2. What is 1kg ap, is it apaan? BMK powder ( legal use in eu )
> 3. Are you done? Phenylacetone? no
> 
> 1 kg ap 0.5 water 1.2 phorsphor ( so here I use an extra 0.5liter phosphoric ) 140 degrees 5 hours with agitator
> You have to get 140 degrees at a lower temperature you get dirty oil
> Saul​



SpeeD


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## T0R

So today I try again with some things different. 
I use 500gr BMK powder
250ml water
950 ml phosphoric acid 75%
40ml sulfuric acid 96%

picture

it is very thik liquid almost like pulp .


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## serialz

Saul said:


> So today I try again with some things different.
> I use 500gr BMK powder
> 250ml water
> 950 ml phosphoric acid 75%
> 40ml sulfuric acid 96%
> 
> picture
> 
> it is very thik liquid almost like pulp .



SaulHi,

It is very interesting to vary the chemical reagents... but would it be possible to have a yield. And therefore to distil your production to have a high purity and a final product.

Because without a comparison, it doesn't help much. And moreover it would be useful for the whole community.

So in short, a yield of your raw product after reaction and a yield after distillation.

Thank you in advance.


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## T0R

serialz said:


> Hi,
> 
> It is very interesting to vary the chemical reagents... but would it be possible to have a yield. And therefore to distil your production to have a high purity and a final product.
> 
> Because without a comparison, it doesn't help much. And moreover it would be useful for the whole community.
> 
> So in short, a yield of your raw product after reaction and a yield after distillation.
> 
> Thank you in advance.



serialz
hello the photo is the result of the first step.
I'm a bit stuck for the second step because I can't find the explanation anywhere.


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## serialz

Saul said:


> hello the photo is the result of the first step.
> I'm a bit stuck for the second step because I can't find the explanation anywhere.



SaulIf I understand correctly you got P2P (phenylacetone)

You have to distil it to be as pure as possible and then you use for example this way of synthesis:
*
Leuckart amination of 1-phenyl-2-propanone (smale scale)*

Or,
Amphetamine from P2P (phenyl-2-propanone)​And,

*Synthesis of methamphetamine from P2P via Aluminum amalgam*

What don't you understand because I'm having trouble following you?


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## T0R

serialz said:


> If I understand correctly you got P2P (phenylacetone)
> 
> You have to distil it to be as pure as possible and then you use for example this way of synthesis:
> *
> Leuckart amination of 1-phenyl-2-propanone (smale scale)*
> 
> Or,
> Amphetamine from P2P (phenyl-2-propanone)​And,
> 
> *Synthesis of methamphetamine from P2P via Aluminum amalgam*
> 
> What don't you understand because I'm having trouble following you?



serialz
I started with bmk powder. the methods you post started with other products.
I just want to know what to do now to get A oil
I know that I now need 85% formic acid but there is no clear explanation to be found.

the street name off the oil I have now is B-oil so now I need to transfer it to A-oil


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## serialz

I'll explain what you just did is called a decarboxylation.

If your starting molecule is the cas 5449-12-7 and his name is BMK Glycidic Acid (sodium salt):





Mechanism:



BMK at the end of mechanism is Benzyl Methyl Ketone or P2P (Your orange oil)

The method you want to use with formic acid is a variant of the links above. But you will get the same result with amphetamine or methamphetamine:



(HCOOH is formic acid)


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## T0R

thx you serialz for trying to explane with hands and feet but Iam not yet out off it .

The last 3 days I search for answers and the only thing I find is more than 12 different people asking this same question in allot off different topics . 
but for some reason they go off topic and the question remains unanswered everywhere


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## UWe9o12jkied91d

This is so funny, you have the patience of a saint @serialz


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## serialz

Take this pdf. All the method with the formic is on this pdf page 33 and after.

Don't forget that your orange oil is phenylacetone or p2p or 1-phenyl-2-propanone. This will help you find your way around the pdf.

What you call A-Oil is N-Formylamphetamine. You will find everything you want in this pdf even what you expect with formic acid.

But I think the problem is that chemically (no disrespect of course) you don't understand what you are doing and where you are going.


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## serialz

UWe9o12jkied91d said:


> This is so funny, you have the patience of a saint @serialz



UWe9o12jkied91d
I am an eternal optimist


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## T0R

UWe9o12jkied91d said:


> This is so funny, you have the patience of a saint @serialz



UWe9o12jkied91dhe is just a nice person. and he is really welcome here. the right man in the right place


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## UWe9o12jkied91d

Saul said:


> he is just a nice person. and he is really welcome here. the right man in the right place



SaulEverybody except the police is welcome here, that dosen't mean we can 't make a bit of fun.


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## T0R

serialz said:


> Take this pdf. All the method with the formic is on this pdf page 33 and after.
> 
> Don't forget that your orange oil is phenylacetone or p2p or 1-phenyl-2-propanone. This will help you find your way around the pdf.
> 
> What you call A-Oil is N-Formylamphetamine. You will find everything you want in this pdf even what you expect with formic acid.
> 
> But I think the problem is that chemically (no disrespect of course) you don't understand what you are doing and where you are going.



serialz
thx for this treasure pdf


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## SpeeD

A-Oil vs. N-Formylamphetamine Is it the same one?
Saul​


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## SpeeD

1. If sulfuric acid is added to A-oil, it will precipitate into amphetamine sulfate or N-Formylamphetamine sulfate.
2.A-oil means Aphetamine free base or N-Formylamphetamine free base.
Can someone help me I'm so confused


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## SpeeD

Convert bmk 5449-12-7 into amphetamine-free base or amphetamine-free base. N-Formylamphetamine


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## T0R

SpeeD said:


> A-Oil vs. N-Formylamphetamine Is it the same one?
> Saul​



SpeeD
no there is one step after N-formylamphetamine to go to amphetamine freebase oil


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## T0R

serialz said:


> Take this pdf. All the method with the formic is on this pdf page 33 and after.
> 
> Don't forget that your orange oil is phenylacetone or p2p or 1-phenyl-2-propanone. This will help you find your way around the pdf.
> 
> What you call A-Oil is N-Formylamphetamine. You will find everything you want in this pdf even what you expect with formic acid.
> 
> But I think the problem is that chemically (no disrespect of course) you don't understand what you are doing and where you are going.



serialzhello my friend I have some questions off this pdf

what is the differ ens between commercial p2p and impure p2p ?

what is 5 eq mean ? is it if you have 100ml that you use 500ml off it ? and how do you do this if the substance is in powder form ?

and last what they mean with excess formic acid ?


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## serialz

> what is the differ ens between commercial p2p and impure p2p ?


An impure molecule, as the name suggests, is a molecule mixed with, for example, traces of solvent or another molecule. (Water, acid, etc) Hence the importance of separating, cleaning, distilling and drying the p2p. 



> what is 5 eq mean ? is it if you have 100ml that you use 500ml off it ? and how do you do this if the substance is in powder form ?


This will become more technical.
We're talking about "mole" ratios. 

In this case, you want to react the p2p with the ammonium carbonate-formic acid mixture. 
The most interesting method for you, since you don't know the purity of your final p2p production, is ammonium carbonate (5eq) and formic acid in excess.

*Let's make it more concrete for you. Let's do some maths:*

Let's imagine *100mL of P2P* (relatively pure as it is cleaned, distilled and dried) which has a mass of *101g*. (The density of P2P is 1.01g/mL)
The number of moles is obtained by dividing the mass by the molar mass. The molar mass of P2P is 134.175g/mol. (This means that if you have +-134g of P2P, you have one mole.)

So in the case of *101g of P2P* (100mL), if we divide 101 by 134.18 we get *0.75 mol* of P2P.

According to the PDF document put in the conversation earlier. The ratio of the reaction is 1:5:Excess (1 is P2P, 5 is ammonium carbonate and excess formic acid)

Let's apply this to our 0.75 mol P2P.
*We must* *have* 5 x 0.75 moles of ammonium carbonate or 3.75 moles. Knowing that the molar mass of ammonium carbonate is 96.085g/mol, you need *360g of ammonium carbonate*.

The excess of formic acid means that you want to react the formic acid completely with the ammonium carbonate, but that in addition there must still be formic acid in the medium.
In the document it is stated that a slight excess is sufficient. We will use 8 moles of *formic acid* or *433g.

In summary:*
1) Take a 2L round-bottomed flask and add 433g of formic acid. Add slowly and in small quantities the 360g of ammonium carbonate. Wait between additions until the effervescence of CO2 stops. If this is not respected, there is a risk of overflowing. 
2) Added to the prepared solution the 100mL of P2P.
3) Connected in reflux under good agitation.
4) Maintain a temperature of 160-165°C for 24 hours. You can do it in several 6-hour sessions, for example.
*N-Formylamphetamine is the product with a yield up to 78%. (A-Oil)*


This procedure is based on the document and I have not tested it but it comes from the extensively detailed thesis so I think it must be correct.

My calculations are based on 85% formic acid which is the commercial standard. 

From a personal point of view and as a chemist this seems more than correct and feasible.

If you want to work with 200mL, just double the mass of formic acid and ammonium carbonate and so on.


----------



## T0R

serialz said:


> An impure molecule, as the name suggests, is a molecule mixed with, for example, traces of solvent or another molecule. (Water, acid, etc) Hence the importance of separating, cleaning, distilling and drying the p2p.
> 
> 
> This will become more technical.
> We're talking about "mole" ratios.
> 
> In this case, you want to react the p2p with the ammonium carbonate-formic acid mixture.
> The most interesting method for you, since you don't know the purity of your final p2p production, is ammonium carbonate (5eq) and formic acid in excess.
> 
> *Let's make it more concrete for you. Let's do some maths:*
> 
> Let's imagine *100mL of P2P* (relatively pure as it is cleaned, distilled and dried) which has a mass of *101g*. (The density of P2P is 1.01g/mL)
> The number of moles is obtained by dividing the mass by the molar mass. The molar mass of P2P is 134.175g/mol. (This means that if you have +-134g of P2P, you have one mole.)
> 
> So in the case of *101g of P2P* (100mL), if we divide 101 by 134.18 we get *0.75 mol* of P2P.
> 
> According to the PDF document put in the conversation earlier. The ratio of the reaction is 1:5:Excess (1 is P2P, 5 is ammonium carbonate and excess formic acid)
> 
> Let's apply this to our 0.75 mol P2P.
> *We must* *have* 5 x 0.75 moles of ammonium carbonate or 3.75 moles. Knowing that the molar mass of ammonium carbonate is 96.085g/mol, you need *360g of ammonium carbonate*.
> 
> The excess of formic acid means that you want to react the formic acid completely with the ammonium carbonate, but that in addition there must still be formic acid in the medium.
> In the document it is stated that a slight excess is sufficient. We will use 8 moles of *formic acid* or *433g.
> 
> In summary:*
> 1) Take a 2L round-bottomed flask and add 433g of formic acid. Add slowly and in small quantities the 360g of ammonium carbonate. Wait between additions until the effervescence of CO2 stops. If this is not respected, there is a risk of overflowing.
> 2) Added to the prepared solution the 100mL of P2P.
> 3) Connected in reflux under good agitation.
> 4) Maintain a temperature of 160-165°C for 24 hours. You can do it in several 6-hour sessions, for example.
> *N-Formylamphetamine is the product with a yield up to 78%. (A-Oil)*
> 
> 
> This procedure is based on the document and I have not tested it but it comes from the extensively detailed thesis so I think it must be correct.
> 
> My calculations are based on 85% formic acid which is the commercial standard.
> 
> From a personal point of view and as a chemist this seems more than correct and feasible.
> 
> If you want to work with 200mL, just double the mass of formic acid and ammonium carbonate and so on.



serialz
thx you so much serials I buy you sponsor status with heisenberg .


----------



## T0R

done you have 180 days sponsor status


----------



## serialz

Saul said:


> done you have 180 days sponsor status



SaulThank you, there is no obligation at all. 

I consider it normal to help


----------



## T0R

serialz said:


> Thank you, there is no obligation at all.
> 
> I consider it normal to help



serialzsame for me mate


----------



## T0R

started the sequel today. I only used 100mg p2p
this video is after 4 hours cooking



http://bbzzzsvqcrqtki6umym6itiixfhni37ybtt7mkbjyxn2pgllzxf2qgyd.onion/data/video/6/6292-c2bcacef613e32134eacf947334faa50.mp4



this photo is after 4 hours of cooking


http://bbzzzsvqcrqtki6umym6itiixfhni37ybtt7mkbjyxn2pgllzxf2qgyd.onion/attachments/lmzswe2pfx-jpg.6291/?hash=ec8ecc91fdfa43e76b1a6d98e54266c7



this photo is after 6 hours cooking and leth it cool down a wile 



http://bbzzzsvqcrqtki6umym6itiixfhni37ybtt7mkbjyxn2pgllzxf2qgyd.onion/attachments/nnjalc8l6u-jpg.6290/?hash=ec8ecc91fdfa43e76b1a6d98e54266c7


----------



## ChingShih

Saul said:


> started the sequel today. I only used 100mg p2p
> this video is after 4 hours cooking
> 
> 
> 
> http://bbzzzsvqcrqtki6umym6itiixfhni37ybtt7mkbjyxn2pgllzxf2qgyd.onion/data/video/6/6292-c2bcacef613e32134eacf947334faa50.mp4
> 
> 
> 
> this photo is after 4 hours of cooking
> 
> 
> http://bbzzzsvqcrqtki6umym6itiixfhni37ybtt7mkbjyxn2pgllzxf2qgyd.onion/attachments/lmzswe2pfx-jpg.6291/?hash=ec8ecc91fdfa43e76b1a6d98e54266c7
> 
> 
> 
> this photo is after 6 hours cooking and leth it cool down a wile
> 
> 
> 
> http://bbzzzsvqcrqtki6umym6itiixfhni37ybtt7mkbjyxn2pgllzxf2qgyd.onion/attachments/nnjalc8l6u-jpg.6290/?hash=ec8ecc91fdfa43e76b1a6d98e54266c7



Saul
What for reaction did you do? 
Leuckart p2p or which? 
What was the yield?


----------



## T0R

ChingShih said:


> What for reaction did you do?
> Leuckart p2p or which?
> What was the yield?



ChingShihLeuckart

no yield yet becouse need to cook much longer before it is ready


----------



## T0R

verry sorry I mean I start today with 100ml p2p 
edit not possible .


----------



## T0R

serialz said:


> replay



serialz
hello serialz

I have some questions 
you saw my picture after 6 hours of cooking.
so 6 hours later I cooked again for 6 hours.
but the oil has turned very dark and less amount. 
I think I had the best result after 4 hours off cooking.
I didn't measure the amount at the time but I think it was short with 100ml of verry light yellow collor.
any idea what goes wrong ?


----------



## serialz

Saul said:


> hello serialz
> 
> I have some questions
> you saw my picture after 6 hours of cooking.
> so 6 hours later I cooked again for 6 hours.
> but the oil has turned very dark and less amount.
> I think I had the best result after 4 hours off cooking.
> I didn't measure the amount at the time but I think it was short with 100ml of verry light yellow collor.
> any idea what goes wrong ?



Saul*"Amphetamine has been synthesised from l-phenyl-2-propanone (P2P) via
N-formylamphetamine using ammonium formate. l-Phenyl-2-propanone and
ammonium formate, (...) were combined and heated (160-180° C )
The contents of the distillation flask were then cooled and hydrolysed by
heating with concentrated hydrochloric acid for 3 hours. The reaction mixture was
washed with benzene-(Toluene should work too) (to remove unreacted ketone ), made alkaline, and steam distilled.
The distillate was extracted with benzene (Toluene should work too) and the product distilled to afford l-phenyl-2-
aminopropane (amphetamine)"*

Absolutely respect the 4x6 hours of reflux. Then do what it says above.

As I have indicated to you, I have not personally used this route to synthesis.

So there are many factors that can make it not work.

Keep us informed ;-)


----------



## T0R

serialz said:


> *"Amphetamine has been synthesised from l-phenyl-2-propanone (P2P) via
> N-formylamphetamine using ammonium formate. l-Phenyl-2-propanone and
> ammonium formate, (...) were combined and heated (160-180° C )
> The contents of the distillation flask were then cooled and hydrolysed by
> heating with concentrated hydrochloric acid for 3 hours. The reaction mixture was
> washed with benzene-(Toluene should work too) (to remove unreacted ketone ), made alkaline, and steam distilled.
> The distillate was extracted with benzene (Toluene should work too) and the product distilled to afford l-phenyl-2-
> aminopropane (amphetamine)"*
> 
> Absolutely respect the 4x6 hours of reflux. Then do what it says above.
> 
> As I have indicated to you, I have not personally used this route to synthesis.
> 
> So there are many factors that can make it not work.
> 
> Keep us informed ;-)



serialz
WTF you already explain everything to end product A oil what is this al about ?

I need the ansfer from serialz from 5 days aggo when he is back ?


----------



## serialz

*This is what you did for 24 hours (4x6h) and that led to your "A-Oil":*

*"Amphetamine has been synthesised from l-phenyl-2-propanone (P2P) via
N-formylamphetamine using ammonium formate. l-Phenyl-2-propanone and
ammonium formate, (...) were combined and heated (160-180° C )"*






*But your "A-Oil" must be treated with HCl as indicated here:

 "The contents of the distillation flask were then cooled and hydrolysed by
heating with concentrated hydrochloric acid for 3 hours. The reaction mixture was
washed with benzene-(Toluene should work too) (to remove unreacted ketone ), made alkaline, and steam distilled.
The distillate was extracted with benzene (Toluene should work too) and the product distilled to afford l-phenyl-2-
aminopropane (amphetamine)"*


All this is done in one glassware, your 24 hours of reflux and then the treatment of the "A-Oil" obtained after the 24 hours of reflux.

You can't isolate your A-Oil (you could but it would be complicated for you.) What I'm doing here is simplifying your life. I'm sorry you don't understand but unfortunately there is nothing I can do about it.

As mentioned above, I can't tell you if it doesn't work what the problem might be. It could be metal contamination from your stirrer that you dissolved when making the P2P. Another contaminant. A bad separation of the P2P that still had phosphoric or sulphuric acid. Etc etc etc

The list can be long. I can guide you as a chemist but not for you ;-)

So go to the end of your 24H of reflux, make the medium acid with HCl (pH2).
Then do the reflux as indicated for extraction etc. And you may get some amphetamine at the end.

But please don't be sarcastic with me.

You wanted to go that route with ammonium carbonate, not me ^^

Even though there were much simpler ways to synthesize it.

I've just been "trying" to guide you since the beginning.


----------



## UWe9o12jkied91d

I think what is reffered to as a-oil is amphetamine freebase dilluted with methanol


----------



## serialz

For me the A-Oil is :

Here

I hate this langage. 

It would be easier if people talked about molecules and not about a language coming from the street...


----------



## UWe9o12jkied91d

serialz said:


> For me the A-Oil is :
> 
> Here
> 
> I hate this langage.
> 
> It would be easier if people talked about molecules and not about a language coming from the street...



serialzI know, much better to talk about molecule, I was just trying to not make an already confused guy even more confused


----------



## T0R

serialz said:


> For me the A-Oil is :
> 
> Here
> 
> I hate this langage.
> 
> It would be easier if people talked about molecules and not about a language coming from the street...



serialz
dear serialz you should not feel attacked.
the earlier explanation about the calculation of the Mols was phenomenal.
you explained in detail there what I had to do to convert my P2P to N-formylamphetamine.

yesterday I just asked a question and suddenly you add an whole explanation.
sorry but i found this very strange. because you already explained everything from P2P to N-Formylamphetamine .
now suddenly toluene and hydrochloric acid were added.
sorry but this was very confusing for me. and still is actually
So forgive me if I seem rude to you.

I don't want amphetamine at all
i want freebase amphetamine N-Formylamphetamine and yes street name in europe A-oil .

so now i ask do i need that extra step of toluene and hydrochloric acid ?

and the real question I wanna to ask 
you calculate 8 moles of formic acid ( 433gr )
excess means overtollig So actually it's not wrong to add too much formic acid? because I personally think that I have used too little formic acid and that is why after a total time of 12 hours of cooking that suddenly a discoloration took place .
formic acid is not expensive at all I prefer to use enough so iam safe .
is this allowed?


----------



## T0R

Oops! We ran into some problems.
The time limit to edit this message (10 minutes) has expired.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
PS: I'm in a learning phase that's why I work with only 100ml quantities off P2P
so it's not a loss if it fails. that's just part of it


----------



## T0R

serialz said:


> I hate this langage.
> 
> It would be easier if people talked about molecules and not about a language coming from the street...



serialz
hello my friend

I need some help plz
i'm done cooking
this time it worked out very well.
after 14 hours of cooking without interruption and with a very powerful mixer I have a nice thick yellow top layer in my flask.
so now i would like to start on the last stage . the ph off the top and bottom layer is ph04 
Do I have to separate these already? so now i have to raise the ph with hydrochloric acid to ph11
the washing with tolueen how do they do this ?


----------



## UWe9o12jkied91d

separate, then add toluene to water layer, mix, separate again, repeat 1-2 times ->HCl -> dry - >precipitate with h2so4


----------



## T0R

UWe9o12jkied91d said:


> separate, then add toluene to water layer, mix, separate again, repeat 1-2 times ->HCl -> dry - >precipitate with h2so4



UWe9o12jkied91dI try to like your post, but it is not working

Thank you for your answer. 

They also say to me that I needed NaOH for the last step ?
And after add HCI I must again heat for 3 hours, reflux ? 
is this correct ?


----------



## UWe9o12jkied91d

This the procedure, did you do anything different? except vaccum ofc

1. A solution of 1-phenyl-2-propanone (0,827 g, 6.2 mmol) and formamide (3,5 ml) was heated at 160-170 *C for 16 h.
2. The mixture was cooled to room temperature, and 30% hydrogen peroxide (5 ml) was added.
3. After stirring for 15 min, the reaction mixture was extracted with benzene (2x25 ml), and the combined benzene extracts were evaporated under reduced pressure to yield a dark oil.
4. The oil was dissolved in a solution of methanol (5 ml) and 15% HCl (5 ml) and stirred at reflux for 2 h.
5. The reaction mixture was evaporated under reduced pressure. The remaining product was dissolved in water (25 ml) and washed with methylene chloride (2x20 ml).
6. The aqueous solution was then made basic (pH 10) by the addition of NaOH pellets and extracted with methylene chloride (2x25 ml).
7. The combined methylene chloride extracts were evaporated to yield the product amine as a yellow oil


----------



## T0R

Yes everything.

I follow the PDF file here in this topic, but the last step is not included. and I only need the last step .
I have now N-formylamphetamine liquid ph4 and I want freebase liquid ph11


----------



## UWe9o12jkied91d

you are on step 3 of the procedure

4. The oil was dissolved in a solution of methanol (5 ml) and 15% HCl (5 ml) and stirred at reflux for 2 h.
5. The reaction mixture was evaporated under reduced pressure. The remaining product was dissolved in water (25 ml) and washed with methylene chloride (2x20 ml). for now its not necesary to vaccum, just use your extracted organic layer(oil).You cant add naoh to just oil + solvent so you need some water, add naoh, extract your regular amphetamine freebase, precipitate.


----------



## T0R

serialz said:


> So go to the end of your 24H of reflux, make the medium acid with HCl (pH2).
> Then do the reflux as indicated for extraction etc. And you may get some amphetamine at the end.



serialzquestion for serialz.

After the 24h reflux, just let everything in the flask ? And start with HCI treatment ? Or separate the two layers first
before starting the treatment ?
How does washing with toluene work ?


----------



## UWe9o12jkied91d

Saul said:


> question for serialz.
> 
> After the 24h reflux, just let everything in the flask ? And start with HCI treatment ? Or separate the two layers first
> before starting the treatment ?
> How does washing with toluene work ?



SaulThe initial reaction mass is separated and you work with the extracted oil and the following washings pooled together.Notice please how the procedure reffers to what is being treated with HCl as oil.
Washing can be meant as extracting.For example after separating you add more toluene to water layer, shake well, wait to separate, put in funnel, separate.Another thing that can be meant is say you have a glass with freebase in it, you pour it off somewhere else, but there is still material on the glass, you add toluene, "washing" the glass of any remains of product.


----------



## T0R

How much HCI I mix with the top layer, let's say it is 300 ml

I realy dont get it that HCI will increase the ph becouse it have ph 1


----------



## UWe9o12jkied91d

you add the hcl to turn your n-formyl into just regular amp. base.Also HCl will decrease your pH, not raise it.In the procedure for 0.8-0.9 p2p 5ml of 15% HCl are used, try an equivalent amount I suppose.


----------



## T0R

UWe9o12jkied91d said:


> you add the hcl to turn your n-formyl into just regular amp. base.Also HCl will decrease your pH, not raise it.In the procedure for 0.8-0.9 p2p 5ml of 15% HCl are used, try an equivalent amount I suppose.



UWe9o12jkied91d
so how do I get it afterwards to ph 11 ?


----------



## UWe9o12jkied91d

6. The aqueous solution was then made basic (pH 10) by the addition of NaOH pellets and extracted with methylene chloride (2x25 ml).

After HCl you have a 2 layer reaction mass, you add sodium hydroxide to that, separate, extract with toluene or whatever you have, pool extracts, dry with mgso4, precipitate.


----------



## T0R

UWe9o12jkied91d said:


> the addition of NaOH pellets and extracted with methylene chloride (2x25 ml).



UWe9o12jkied91dcan I use also tolueen for this becouse I dont have methylene chloride ?


----------



## melk

*Hello to all members*


Spoiler



I am new here.


I have a question off this synthesis 
is there a way from N-formylamphetamine. To normal speed ( paste ) 
Because I don't want unstable oil 
I want the best quality possible with the things I have, and I think that oil is not the answer 
who can help me ?


----------



## UWe9o12jkied91d

Saul said:


> can I use also tolueen for this becouse I dont have methylene chloride ?



Saulyes, any non-polar works xylene, pet ether, cyclohexane, benzene, ipa too if your aq layer is basic or brine saturated, acetates hurt yield not worth using


melk said:


> *Hello to all members*
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I am new here.
> 
> 
> I have a question off this synthesis
> is there a way from N-formylamphetamine. To normal speed ( paste )
> Because I don't want unstable oil
> I want the best quality possible with the things I have, and I think that oil is not the answer
> who can help me ?


This is what we are talking about in this thread.Formetorex is obtained by leuckart amination followed by hydrolysis with HCl yielding amphetamine freebase, which can keep for months dilluted and kept cold.


----------



## melk

Sorry but I can't find *the ratio* of hydrochloric acid anywhere here *in this Synthesis *


----------



## UWe9o12jkied91d

melk said:


> Sorry but I can't find *the ratio* of hydrochloric acid anywhere here *in this Synthesis *



melk1. A solution of 1-phenyl-2-propanone (*0,827 g, 6.2 mmol*)


4. The oil was dissolved in a solution of methanol (5 ml) and *15% HCl (5 ml)* and stirred at reflux for 2 h.

Account for error and we've found ourselves a ratio


----------



## melk

UWe9o12jkied91d said:


> 1. A solution of 1-phenyl-2-propanone (*0,827 g, 6.2 mmol*)
> 
> 
> 4. The oil was dissolved in a solution of methanol (5 ml) and *15% HCl (5 ml)* and stirred at reflux for 2 h.
> 
> Account for error and we've found ourselves a ratio



UWe9o12jkied91dWhat was the total amount of N-formylamphetamine ?
I need to know this for my calculation off HCI and methanol


----------



## melk

If the amount from N-formylamphetamine is 500 ML, is it correct to add 75 ML HCI and 75 ML isopropanol alcohol ?


----------



## UWe9o12jkied91d

melk said:


> What was the total amount of N-formylamphetamine ?
> I need to know this for my calculation off HCI and methanol



melkIt is not my procedure, from a thread by sir william.Having an exact number wold be ideal, but the point is HCl is used in excess, for example the paper below uses 10ml of HCl of unspecified conc. (or im blind or stupid) for 1 gram of product to be hydrolized.


https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/83/bb/4d/9cd8b0724ca65a/US20130046111A1.pdf


----------



## UWe9o12jkied91d

melk said:


> If the amount from N-formylamphetamine is 500 ML, is it correct to add 75 ML HCI and 75 ML isopropanol alcohol ?



melkI don't know


----------



## melk

So many versions of this last step have been posted that searching for the right method here on breaking bad is like playing the lottery.

Uncle fester posted a clear answer, but that is not for amphetamines but meth
he only adds HCI and not HCI + Alcohol like I read here on this page.
He says if N-formylamphetamine is 500 ML than add 1 liter HCI and reflux 1 hour
but again this info is for meth, so I still have no answer.


----------



## Castlebar

Thanks fol keeping me in the loop aswell 
appreciated


----------



## T0R

Castlebar said:


> Thanks fol keeping me in the loop aswell
> appreciated



Castlebar
this topic is completely stuck. 
no more useful answers are coming up.


----------



## Castlebar

Saul said:


> this topic is completely stuck.
> no more useful answers are coming up.



SaulHas any asked sir William about the answer ? And thanks for reply


----------



## melk

.
I even opened a ticket yesterday with this question and then I get an existing link in response where the answer is really not written. they are specialists and they are super helpful to some .
my answer is enough with 6 carackters total text
but unfortunately no one knows the answer or does not want to give it


----------



## UWe9o12jkied91d

melk said:


> So many versions of this last step have been posted that searching for the right method here on breaking bad is like playing the lottery.
> 
> Uncle fester posted a clear answer, but that is not for amphetamines but meth
> he only adds HCI and not HCI + Alcohol like I read here on this page.
> He says if N-formylamphetamine is 500 ML than add 1 liter HCI and reflux 1 hour
> but again this info is for meth, so I still have no answer.



melkIt doesn't really matter tbh, as long as you have enough to hydrolize all the nfa a large excess dosen't seem to hurt.If literature reports good results with ratios of 5 to 1 twice, 10 to 1 once and this procedure reports around 1 to 2.5 roughly.So we can draw the conclusion anything between 2.5/100 to 10/100 works fine by my reasoning.
I think I explained pretty clearly and accurately, if any expert wants to peer review me I invite all corrections ofcourse.


----------



## melk

I wouldn't need a forum if I was experimenting blindly. the amount is extremely important. also because we use HCI 30%. there's quite a bit of water in there already.
By the way, this is the last step so if you use too much, that a-oil is worth nothing.
or are there two layers added to this step ?
If so then it can't hurt to use too much.

are there after the reaction HCI + reflux 2 hour also 2 Layers ?


----------



## Castlebar

Hi guys I will be attempting to turn the p2p into pn2p using described methods available on here if anyone has anything to add information wise it is appreciated I know there are many knowledgeable people on this forum and guys your knowledge and wisdom is appreciated so please feel free any of you to offer your direction many thanks


----------



## T0R

Castlebar said:


> Hi guys I will be attempting to turn the p2p into pn2p using described methods available on here if anyone has anything to add information wise it is appreciated I know there are many knowledgeable people on this forum and guys your knowledge and wisdom is appreciated, so please feel free any of you to offer your direction many thanks



Castlebarhello, my friend, 

I am close to final I don't rush things don't like that I take my time 
and only goes to the next level if I am 100% sure it is right.
But I promise when I am there, I write down in detail every step I did to the end.
in my group breaking bad europe. ( for al sponsor members ) to support the forum


----------



## Castlebar

Saul said:


> hello, my friend,
> 
> I am close to final I don't rush things don't like that I take my time
> and only goes to the next level if I am 100% sure it is right.
> But I promise when I am there, I write down in detail every step I did to the end.
> in my group breaking bad europe.



SaulHello Saul thanks for reply yeah I been going steady with this to just managed to get a improved yield from the glicidiate and conversion into dark rich oil bmk my end product will hopefully produce anphetamine sulfate and great I look forward to hearing how you get on fingers crossed  it goes well


----------



## Kslzlxczkaoxl

melk said:


> I wouldn't need a forum if I was experimenting blindly. the amount is extremely important. also because we use HCI 30%. there's quite a bit of water in there already.
> By the way, this is the last step so if you use too much, that a-oil is worth nothing.
> or are there two layers added to this step ?
> If so then it can't hurt to use too much.
> 
> are there after the reaction HCI + reflux 2 hour also 2 Layers ?



melkPosting from a burner since I can’t log my main now.
I mean you’ve got a huge margin 2.5/100-10/100 so I doubt you can screw up too too bad.It dosen’t matter within reason ofcourse, but start conservatively and see what works and what dosen’t, it’s not blind if you have a generous interval.
And yes, after the extracting of n-formyl by distillation or solvent you will have 1 layer in the flask, and after hcl you will naturally have 2 layers since there is water in the acidic solution.After hydrolysis you then again separate the 2 layers extracting your freebase a few times with a non polar solvent or distillation.



Castlebar said:


> Hi guys I will be attempting to turn the p2p into pn2p using described methods available on here if anyone has anything to add information wise it is appreciated I know there are many knowledgeable people on this forum and guys your knowledge and wisdom is appreciated so please feel free any of you to offer your direction many thanks


Good on you, sir.Praxis, action is the only way to master a reaction, regardless of theory or disscussion over small details.Keep us posted.


----------



## Castlebar

Kslzlxczkaoxl said:


> Posting from a burner since I can’t log my main now.
> I mean you’ve got a huge margin 2.5/100-10/100 so I doubt you can screw up too too bad.It dosen’t matter within reason ofcourse, but start conservatively and see what works and what dosen’t, it’s not blind if you have a generous interval.
> And yes, after the extracting of n-formyl by distillation or solvent you will have 1 layer in the flask, and after hcl you will naturally have 2 layers since there is water in the acidic solution.After hydrolysis you then again separate the 2 layers extracting your freebase a few times with a non polar solvent or distillation.
> 
> 
> Good on you, sir.Praxis, action is the only way to master a reaction, regardless of theory or disscussion over small details.Keep us posted.



KslzlxczkaoxlThanks for your reply I'm working steadily at this to try and reach the end result and will share my findings also at the end guys all information knowledge and feed back from you all is appreciated this forum is fantastic in that way have a good day all of you


----------



## melk

so just an update on the situation.
so i had 400ml of N-Formylamphetamine and I added 800ml of hydrochloric acid and boiled reflux for 2 hours.
the color is horribly very dark brown. now I'm curious if I'm going to see two layers since the color is so fuckt up. I really hope so. then I just need to get the ph up and for this I use naoh mix with water. now i'm going to let everything cool down


----------



## melk

https://bbgate.com/attachments/snbp7j6cis-jpg.6792/?hash=3ae4cd3bf8d82f5114d358d291f71215



this is how it looks after the HCI room temp


----------



## Zan444

I cant read this anymore.
What you want is the Amphetamin Freebase this is A-OIL not N-Amphetamin you want normal Amphetamin.
It looks like that BMK Powder (Cas:544.....) -> BMK(P2P)(B-OIL) -> N-Amphetamin -> Amphetamin(Amphetamin freebase)(A-OIL) -> Amphetamin Sulphate made out of A-Oil,Solvent and Sulfuric Acid.
You have now N-Amphetamin made out of Formic Acid now you need to make Hydrolysis for example with HCL to get the Ampehtamin Freebase. At the end you need too purify the Amphetamin Freebase to get your clear oil maybe you get 2 or 3 diffrent oils depends how you work one yellow and one clear. Both A-Oil of diffrent quality.

@serialz And no N-Amphetamin is not A-OIL. A-OIL is Amphetamin(Amphetamin Freebase)
@Saul do the step with the HCL if you need more help ask me. You have now N-Amphetamin so one more step and you have A-OIL


----------



## KokosDreams

Zan444 said:


> I cant read this anymore.
> What you want is the Amphetamin Freebase this is A-OIL not N-Amphetamin you want normal Amphetamin.
> It looks like that BMK Powder (Cas:544.....) -> BMK(P2P)(B-OIL) -> N-Amphetamin -> Amphetamin(Amphetamin freebase)(A-OIL) -> Amphetamin Sulphate made out of A-Oil,Solvent and Sulfuric Acid.
> You have now N-Amphetamin made out of Formic Acid now you need to make Hydrolysis for example with HCL to get the Ampehtamin Freebase. At the end you need too purify the Amphetamin Freebase to get your clear oil maybe you get 2 or 3 diffrent oils depends how you work one yellow and one clear. Both A-Oil of diffrent quality.
> 
> @serialz And no N-Amphetamin is not A-OIL. A-OIL is Amphetamin(Amphetamin Freebase)
> @Saul do the step with the HCL if you need more help ask me. You have now N-Amphetamin so one more step and you have A-OIL



Zan444How do you mean that exactly that two different oil qualities can be extracted from a single process?


----------



## T0R

Zan444 said:


> I can't read this anymore.
> What you want is the Amphetamine Freebase, this is A-OIL not Amphetamine you want normal Amphetamine.
> It looks like that BMK Powder (CAS:544.....) -> BMK(P2P)(B-OIL) -> Amphetamine -> Amphetamine(Amphetamine freebase)(A-OIL) -> Amphetamine Sulfate made out of A-Oil, Solvent and Sulfuric Acid.
> You have now Amphetamine made out of Formic Acid now you need to make Hydrolysis for example with HCL to get the Amphetamine Freebase. At the end you need to purify the Amphetamine Freebase to get your clear oil, maybe you get 2 or 3 different oils depends on how you work, one yellow and one clear. Both A-Oil of different quality.
> 
> @serialz And no Amphetamine is not A-OIL. A-OIL is Amphetamine(Amphetamine Freebase)
> @Saul do the step with the HCL if you need more help ask me. You have now Amphetamine so one more step, and you have A-OIL



Zan444
Hello, thanks for your reply.
serialz was indeed mistaken in saying that N-Formylamphetamine was A-oil.
He rectified this afterwards with the help of G.Patton .
I just finished adding hydrochloric acid
all i have to do is raise my PH to 11 and wash with toluene . 
and I wanted to finish with a distillation .


----------



## melk

I have a question about distillation. can i just distill the oil without adding anything?


----------



## T0R

This topic is stuck for weeks


----------



## melk

it's a complete failure. i had natrium hydroxide cas 1310-73-2
150 gr mixed with 300ml water .
let cool to room temperature.
then added to my mix see previous photo
and now it fucks up i have 3 layers my
bottom white salt middle translucent and top black yield is almost gone now
pH has not changed. but also very difficult to measure a black thick liquid with those strips.
fucking shit

compleet fail becouse off natrium hydroxide

is it possible that this fuckt up mix need to heat and reflux for an hour ?


----------



## KokosDreams

melk said:


> I have a question about distillation. can i just distill the oil without adding anything?



melkI'd assume yes, it will remove unwanted liquid by-products from the oil and you can also use a DCM extraction to get rid of unwanted solids


----------



## melk

..


----------



## UWe9o12jkied91d

KokosDreams said:


> I'd assume yes, it will remove unwanted liquid by-products from the oil and you can also use a DCM extraction to get rid of unwanted solids



KokosDreamsfreebase is air and temp sensitive, if you want to distill you need to do it under vaccum or by steam.


----------



## KokosDreams

UWe9o12jkied91d said:


> freebase is air and temp sensitive, if you want to distill you need to do it under vaccum or by steam.



UWe9o12jkied91dAs for the distillation, yes.

But a DCM extraction can be done aswell right, to get rid of solids?


----------



## UWe9o12jkied91d

KokosDreams said:


> As for the distillation, yes.
> 
> But a DCM extraction can be done aswell right, to get rid of solids?



KokosDreamsIt's either or as they are both a way to isolate your product, or both, I guess, if you want it super pure.Extraction with solvent will have more impurities but it does the job and you can purify after precipitation or pool extracts and rotovap the solvent under pressure.


----------



## KokosDreams

UWe9o12jkied91d said:


> It's either or as they are both a way to isolate your product, or both, I guess, if you want it super pure.Extraction with solvent will have more impurities but it does the job and you can purify after precipitation or pool extracts and rotovap the solvent under pressure.



UWe9o12jkied91dI'd actually do all of the following steps to purify the oil as much as possible.

1. Evaporate IPA with a Rotavap
2. Add water (1:1) for steam distillation
3. Extract distilled mixture twice with DCM (250ml:2L)
4. Evaporate DCM on Vacuum with a Rotavap


----------



## UWe9o12jkied91d

KokosDreams said:


> I'd actually do all of the following steps to purify the oil as much as possible.
> 
> 1. Evaporate IPA with a Rotavap
> 2. Add water (1:1) for steam distillation
> 3. Extract distilled mixture twice with DCM (250ml:2L)
> 4. Evaporate DCM on Vacuum with a Rotavap



KokosDreamssounds good, let us know how it goes


----------



## KokosDreams

UWe9o12jkied91d said:


> sounds good, let us know how it goes



UWe9o12jkied91dYeah man,

I'll be good to go once all the lab equipment arrived - which might be approx 3 weeks from now.

I'll publish a short post public on the forum and a more detailed one including pictures in my group


----------



## T0R

Iam just ready with the final steps.
but it is a total failure.
I added sulfuric acid to my mixture or methanol + A-oil and I had no reaction at all. my A oil had ph13
everything seemed fine. but no reaction at all with addition of sulfuric acid. ph is drop back to 1 thats it
after adding hydrochloric acid to my N-formylamphetamine boil for two hours.
then I separated the layers. I made a mixture of 300gr NaOH + 500ml water . 
added at room temperature. Boil at reflux for 30 min. layers separated ph was 12 or 13
Then I washed 3 times with toluene. I had put the top layer in a glass bottle with toluene and shaken well. this 3 times again . then i did the distillation and everything seemed ok

zero reaction heavy disappointment

I am sure that something went wrong after the preparation of N-formylamphetamine .
the part of hydrochloric acid addition nobody here knew what to do . and then you just act blind. they post explanation add 5ml hydrochloric acid and 5ml methanol . then the question is asked 5ml to 100ml?? 1000ml?? answer I don't know.


----------



## Zan444

KokosDreams said:


> How do you mean that exactly that two different oil qualities can be extracted from a single process?



KokosDreamsIf you make steam distillation you can get alot of diffrent oils cause it is not that easy too hold the temperature. It is A-OIL but one is of better quality then the other.
Or why do you think they sell 2 diffrent OILs in europe one yellow other clear. There are even diffrent namens for the OILs in the netherlands.


Saul said:


> Iam just ready with the final steps.
> but it is a total failure.
> I added sulfuric acid to my mixture or methanol + A-oil and I had no reaction at all. my A oil had ph13
> everything seemed fine. but no reaction at all with addition of sulfuric acid. ph is drop back to 1 thats it
> after adding hydrochloric acid to my N-formylamphetamine boil for two hours.
> then I separated the layers. I made a mixture of 300gr NaOH + 500ml water .
> added at room temperature. Boil at reflux for 30 min. layers separated ph was 12 or 13
> Then I washed 3 times with toluene. I had put the top layer in a glass bottle with toluene and shaken well. this 3 times again . then i did the distillation and everything seemed ok
> 
> zero reaction heavy disappointment
> 
> I am sure that something went wrong after the preparation of N-formylamphetamine .
> the part of hydrochloric acid addition nobody here knew what to do . and then you just act blind. they post explanation add 5ml hydrochloric acid and 5ml methanol . then the question is asked 5ml to 100ml?? 1000ml?? answer I don't know.


Can you writte down all the steps you made in a post so i can look over it to find some misstakes?


----------



## KokosDreams

Zan444 said:


> If you make steam distillation you can get alot of diffrent oils cause it is not that easy too hold the temperature. It is A-OIL but one is of better quality then the other.
> Or why do you think they sell 2 diffrent OILs in europe one yellow other clear. There are even diffrent namens for the OILs in the netherlands.



Zan444Interesting.

What measures can be taken to improve providing a steady temperature?

Also, what are the street names of these two different oils?


----------



## Zan444

KokosDreams said:


> Interesting.
> 
> What measures can be taken to improve providing a steady temperature?
> 
> Also, what are the street names of these two different oils?



KokosDreamsSmaller amounts and vacuum distillation.
I dont think someone here performs vacuum destillation on 200L.


----------



## KokosDreams

Zan444 said:


> Smaller amounts and vacuum distillation.
> I dont think someone here performs vacuum destillation on 200L.



Zan444What would be a smaller amount be for you (maximum in L)?

Also, can you recall the most common street names for both different qualities?


----------



## Zan444

KokosDreams said:


> What would be a smaller amount be for you (maximum in L)?
> 
> Also, can you recall the most common street names for both different qualities?



KokosDreamsFor street names hit me up in private message. They are also just known in the netherlands.
It doesnt depend on the L it depends on the equipment you have.
If you have a distillation device for 200L what allows vacuum distillation it should be possible for 200L but i dont think it is done that easy.
The answear is most big labs use steam distillation cause it is more easy too perform on big amounts.
But you have still the problem with the temperature on big amounts.


----------



## T0R

Zan444 said:


> If you make steam distillation, you can get a lot of different oils



Zan444
I did a normal distillation, Simply to improve the color. What also succeeded.
I no longer accept advice from new users. You are here for two days, and you talk here in this topic as if you were an expert.
If you had read the topic, you would have seen the full process from A to Z
stop wasting people time with nonsense .


----------



## UWe9o12jkied91d

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="



"


----------



## KokosDreams

Zan444 said:


> For street names hit me up in private message. They are also just known in the netherlands.
> It doesnt depend on the L it depends on the equipment you have.
> If you have a distillation device for 200L what allows vacuum distillation it should be possible for 200L but i dont think it is done that easy.
> The answear is most big labs use steam distillation cause it is more easy too perform on big amounts.
> But you have still the problem with the temperature on big amounts.



Zan444Understood! 

I also figured that some tend to skip steps like DCM extraction of solids..maybe for time reasons.
Looking forward to implement all my learnings soon in my own synthesis, thanks for the chat. You'll have a DM from me


----------



## KokosDreams

Saul said:


> I did a normal distillation, Simply to improve the color. What also succeeded.
> I no longer accept advice from new users. You are here for two days, and you talk here in this topic as if you were an expert.
> If you had read the topic, you would have seen the full process from A to Z
> stop wasting people time with nonsense .



SaulMan it's an open forum cmon.

Maybe it's my eyes but I see that he joined 26 days after you in May..
No reason to be unpolite


----------



## flask

This forum can only work if moderators with knowledge improve certain theories
I see some mistakes here
first, ammonium carbonate is never used directly with p2p.
First, ammonium formate is made.
The ammonium formate is easily made via ammonium carbonate and formic acid. Titrate
to a nice pH of 7 and remove the water.
Only then can it be used with p2p


----------



## KokosDreams

flask said:


> This forum can only work if moderators with knowledge improve certain theories
> I see some mistakes here
> first, ammonium carbonate is never used directly with p2p.
> First, ammonium formate is made.
> The ammonium formate is easily made via ammonium carbonate and formic acid. Titrate
> to a nice pH of 7 and remove the water.
> Only then can it be used with p2p



flaskI can't wait to see the forum grow more with more and more experienced people coming around!


----------



## Zan444

Saul said:


> I did a normal distillation, Simply to improve the color. What also succeeded.
> I no longer accept advice from new users. You are here for two days, and you talk here in this topic as if you were an expert.
> If you had read the topic, you would have seen the full process from A to Z
> stop wasting people time with nonsense .



SaulListen you asked people for help and i wrote you my reply.
I literally wrote you down all the basics and what i saw from experience or why do you think the people sell yellow and clear OIL in the netherlands?
No need to accept my advice cause i will not give it too you anymore.
But i think it is obvious who has more experience from us both 
Just remember who was stuck with hydrolysis and thought A-OIL is N-Amphetamin.


----------



## workworkwork

From wikipedia it looks easy... 

In the first step, a reaction between phenylacetone and formamide, either using additional formic acid or formamide itself as a reducing agent, yields N-formylamphetamine. This intermediate is then hydrolyzed using hydrochloric acid, and subsequently basified, extracted with organic solvent, concentrated, and distilled to yield the free base. 

The free base is then dissolved in an organic solvent, sulfuric acid added, and amphetamine precipitates out as the sulfate salt.


----------



## UWe9o12jkied91d

workworkwork said:


> From wikipedia it looks easy...
> 
> In the first step, a reaction between phenylacetone and formamide, either using additional formic acid or formamide itself as a reducing agent, yields N-formylamphetamine. This intermediate is then hydrolyzed using hydrochloric acid, and subsequently basified, extracted with organic solvent, concentrated, and distilled to yield the free base.
> 
> The free base is then dissolved in an organic solvent, sulfuric acid added, and amphetamine precipitates out as the sulfate salt.



workworkworkIt is easy, some people just like to reinvent the wheel and add their own twists with no qualification to do so instead of following a recipe on the dot.


----------



## workworkwork

I found this receipe on Uncle Fester book

Amphetamine synthesis via the Leuckart reaction

The magic in the reaction is to put the phenylacetone and the formamide together a couple of
days before doing the reaction.
I part phenyl acetone and 2 parts fonnamide must stand at room temperature at least 24 hours or
more. I think one week is best. It should be shaken twice a day or more. I believe the formamide is
slowly reacting with the phenyl acetone, so the longer it stands, the better!
Maybe if the temperature is higher, it reacts faster. Some people leave it for only a day, but if
you have the time, why not let it stand for one or two weeks?
Just before I got arrested, I was measuring the pH of the mixture, and I believe that it changes
every day. With a little patience, you should be able to figure out the best length of time to let it
stand.
Warning: NEVER put the formic acid with the mixture. It will ruin everything, and you will
have to start all over.
So now you have waited for a week, and you're ready to go for it. Put your mixture in a glass
flask with boiling chips. You should use as many as possible, because you need small bubbles.
This is very important! ! With a condenser on top for refluxing, the water inside the condenser must
not be very cold, because the ammonia will block the hole in the condenser, so 30° C is a good
temperature for it. You can even let all the water out, if you don't mind the smell of ammonia.
Just before you start, you take a little bit of fonnic acid and add it to the mixture. You only
need a little bit; for instance, for a 3-liter mixture, add Scc. More won't do any hann. If you put in
too much, just heat the flask without the condenser until the temperature has gone up to 1 60- 1 65°
C, and put the condenser back on.
Now you must raise the temperature to 1 80° C, and sometimes a little bit higher, depending
on the quality of your formamide. Here they use industrial grade. I've never had any problems, as
long as it's clean.
Let the mixture ret1ux for one hour after it has reached the desired temperature. The mixture
will change from light yellow to dark yellow. If it starts to darken, then your temperature is too
high.
After one hour, let it cool down, or when it is a small batch, take a sep funnel tIlled with
water and mix it with your batch. Don't use any lye at this stage.
Now take out the oil and mix it with twice the amount of hydrochloric acid. Let it reflux for
one hour.
Now you have to separate this with lye. The best thing to do is to first let it cool down, but if
it's a small batch and a big sep funnel, you can take the risk. Also, very good shaking is needed
here.
Take the oily layer and start to distill it under maximum vacuum.
Take the distilled product and mix this with twice the amount of alcohol, methanol, acetone,
or whatever you think is best. Now take 20% H2S04 and add this slowly until the p H is 7 . If you
added too much H2S04, just bring the pH back with some lye.
Now filter out the product and let it dry. Big batches take a long time to dry, so people here
put them in a centrifuge. Take a big bedsheet, put your batch in there, and let it spin. (Be careful
with sparks and such')
time.
Instead of formamide, you can also use ammonium fonnate. You don't need formic acid here.
I ' m now trying to do the reaction with only ammonia, but I ' m still working on that one.
If you have any questions, j ust write me and ask. Keep up the good work and have a good


----------



## workworkwork

And Uncle Fester also talks about add a little nickle and sodium borohydride as catalysts to increase yields.


----------



## T0R

Is there one person on this forum who suck seeded and had end product A-oil ?


----------



## KokosDreams

Saul said:


> Is there one person on this forum who suck seeded and had end product A-oil ?



SaulI think @btcboss2022 succeeded with BMK Powder 5449


----------



## T0R

KokosDreams said:


> I think @btcboss2022 succeeded with BMK Powder 5449



KokosDreamsno not true he made P2P from it . 
there is no one here who did it


----------



## doyourbest

Saul said:


> no not true he made P2P from it .
> there is no one here who did it



SaulDm me


----------



## KokosDreams

Saul said:


> no not true he made P2P from it .
> there is no one here who did it



SaulOh okay I understand 

Why do you not go for the NaBH4/CuCL2 route?


----------



## T0R

doyourbest said:


> Dm me



doyourbest
hello sir I already have P2P 
this is not the problem


----------



## ChingShih

Saul said:


> hello sir I already have P2P
> this is not the problem



Saul
Do not give up @Saul, buy Ammonium Formate this time and try to react with p2p again
Then when you have n-formyl, add hcl in ratio 1:1 and boil for 2 hours, after this add naoh and the a-oil comes out

Try again and post results if it works


----------



## Amp master

Saul said:


> Is there one person on this forum who suck seeded and had end product A-oil ?



SaulEveryone makes it sound impossible mate it’s very easy process and end result is 52% A oil crystal clear


----------



## h20

Amp master said:


> Everyone makes it sound impossible mate it’s very easy process and end result is 52% A oil crystal clear



Amp master52% ? I did it with 89%


----------



## Amp master

h20 said:


> 52% ? I did it with 89%



h2089% free base


----------



## h20

yes sir


----------



## Amp master

h20 said:


> yes sir



h20That’s best I’ve heard pal what was your way of doing it


----------



## T0R

This weekend, I try again. This time I make my ammonium formate on front and let it boil a wile so the water is gone
and then I put it in the freezer and after that I use vacuum to dry it. So I know there is absolutely no water inside

What I don't understand is that so many people here claim to have succeeded in the synthesis.
but they don't post proof. I'm sorry but for me you failed.


----------



## ChingShih

h20 said:


> 52% ? I did it with 89%



h20
Can you please explain how did you achieve this yield?
And what ratios of p2p and other reagents did you use?


----------



## tweaker2

Saul said:


> This weekend, I try again. This time I make my ammonium formate on front and let it boil a wile so the water is gone
> and then I put it in the freezer and after that I use vacuum to dry it. So I know there is absolutely no water inside
> 
> What I don't understand is that so many people here claim to have succeeded in the synthesis.
> but they don't post proof. I'm sorry but for me you failed.



Sauli think your problem is the p2p the conversion was incomplete did you only boil the bmk powder in acid?what is the ph of your p2p and how does it smell?pure p2p has very pleasant flowery smell


----------



## Waltershite2022

I I have had APAAN that Had a very similar smell to bananas Wons converted to P to P has anyone heard this before?


----------



## KokosDreams

Waltershite2022 said:


> I I have had APAAN that Had a very similar smell to bananas Wons converted to P to P has anyone heard this before?



Waltershite2022Do you mean P2NP?

P2NP smells like marzipan and a little fruity too


----------



## Waltershite2022

Poss could be was given it wid no CAS number still got it First batch went to a oil fine


----------



## KokosDreams

Waltershite2022 said:


> Poss could be was given it wid no CAS number still got it First batch went to a oil fine



Waltershite2022Hmm, do you got a picture?

P2NP looks like this (attachement):


----------



## Waltershite2022

No it was lighter in color and was waxy to the touch but was also Crystal kind of shine to it if you get me will try get pic tomorrow


----------



## KokosDreams

Waltershite2022 said:


> No it was lighter in color and was waxy to the touch but was also Crystal kind of shine to it if you get me will try get pic tomorrow



Waltershite2022Gotcha, waiting for your picture then!


----------



## studentt

hello,

i put 5kg powder 5l water and 5l hci. everything turned green. is that normal?
when i reached 3l hci i saw the oil. but i read more hci? is needed


----------



## T0R

I realy dont get it why people wanna use HCI for this . 
if you can avoid HCI 1 good advice do it . boiling point is allot to low and most importand
you die from those gases. this is the worst product to work with.
you need to find you a chemical with boiling point minimum 140°c
AND ALWAYS START WITH MAXIMUM 0.5 KG POUDER


----------



## T0R

studentt said:


> hello,
> 
> i put 5kg powder 5l water and 5l hci. everything turned green. is that normal?



studentt
NOT REALY

this is the preparation of P2P Phenylacetone CAS 103-79-7 made use of BMK Glycidic Acid ( sodium salt ) CAS 5449-12-7 with main ingredient sulfonic acid strength is 75% CAS 7664-38-2
-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
we are going to prepare 1 kg of BMK
take a 5 liter double neck flask
add 500ml boiling water . start with the mixer.
now slowly add 1kg of BMK salt. then add 1 liter of sulfonic acid. now connect the reflux and heat the contents of the flask to max temperature. plus minus 130°c. use a powerful mixer
Let it boil in reflux for 4 hours.
take the top layer and pour it into a measuring cup.
let the bottom layer cool and save for next time. ( we have no chemical waste for this preparation method )

now boil 1 liter of water and add it to the measuring cup. use a hand mixer to mix everything.
After mixing for a few minutes, let the measuring cup cool to room temperature.
remove the top white layer (this is water and waste that we don't need)
the bottom layer is P2P purified and ready to use.

ps: in this preparation we don't have to worry about water remaining in our P2P because water weighs less than P2P

ps2: if you keep these ratios, the P2P will have a ph value of 4 .
if you use more sulfonic acid the ph value will drop to 1. Therefore it is not necessary to use too much sulfonic acid.


----------



## ChingShih

Saul said:


> NOT REALY
> 
> this is the preparation of P2P Phenylacetone CAS 103-79-7 made use of BMK Glycidic Acid ( sodium salt ) CAS 5449-12-7 with main ingredient sulfonic acid strength is 75% CAS 7664-38-2
> -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
> we are going to prepare 1 kg of BMK
> take a 5 liter double neck flask
> add 500ml boiling water . start with the mixer.
> now slowly add 1kg of BMK salt. then add 1 liter of sulfonic acid. now connect the reflux and heat the contents of the flask to max temperature. plus minus 130°c. use a powerful mixer
> Let it boil in reflux for 4 hours.
> take the top layer and pour it into a measuring cup.
> let the bottom layer cool and save for next time. ( we have no chemical waste for this preparation method )
> 
> now boil 1 liter of water and add it to the measuring cup. use a hand mixer to mix everything.
> After mixing for a few minutes, let the measuring cup cool to room temperature.
> remove the top white layer (this is water and waste that we don't need)
> the bottom layer is P2P purified and ready to use.
> 
> ps: in this preparation we don't have to worry about water remaining in our P2P because water weighs less than P2P
> 
> ps2: if you keep these ratios, the P2P will have a ph value of 4 .
> if you use more sulfonic acid the ph value will drop to 1. Therefore it is not necessary to use too much sulfonic acid.



Saul
Thanks for update Saul
What was the yield from this 1kg reaction?
And what is the purity of your sulfonic acid?


----------



## T0R

ChingShih said:


> Thanks for update Saul
> What was the yield from this 1kg reaction?
> And what is the purity of your sulfonic acid?



ChingShihmain ingredient sulfonic acid strength is 75% CAS 7664-38-2


----------



## pantona123

@Saul 
Thanks for sharing your knowledge, I have a question is the oil you got clear or yellow?
Best regards


----------



## T0R

pantona123 said:


> @Saul
> Thanks for sharing your knowledge, I have a question is the oil you got clear or yellow?
> Best regards



pantona123
on the right side is my P2P


http://bbzzzsvqcrqtki6umym6itiixfhni37ybtt7mkbjyxn2pgllzxf2qgyd.onion/attachments/t6r0hfllrj-jpg.7360/?hash=0268b4f62cd64021a0b6a9bd250f45da


----------



## pantona123

Thank you very much,
Okay and now to get it clear you have to wash/filter it with dcm right? 
Thanks


----------



## T0R

pantona123 said:


> Thank you very much,
> Okay and now to get it clear you have to wash/filter it with dcm right?
> Thanks



pantona123
don't know from here which stadium you are ?

if you mean the P2P I wash it with 1liter boiling water like I describe


----------



## melk

There are some things I don't get in this syntheses

if we just start the syntheses from P2P 
how is it possible that this one here is totally different from other
synth posted on this forum ?


----------



## T0R

flask said:


> Titrate to a nice pH of 7 and remove the water.



flask
what is Titrate ? I read also that the HCI must titrate to ph 2 ?


----------



## flask

ChingShih said:


> Do not give up @Saul, buy Ammonium Formate this time and try to react with p2p again
> Then when you have n-formyl, add hcl in ratio 1:1 and boil for 2 hours, after this add naoh and the a-oil comes out
> 
> Try again and post results if it works



ChingShihWhen add HCL and reflux for two hours, do we first separate or add the NaOH first ?
I read someway that the HCL must be ph2 before add to the normal


----------



## sponsor

Can someone with know please explane this last step because there are no answers to find. @HEISENBERG


----------



## edyvanellende

sponsor said:


> View attachment 7571
> 
> Can someone with know please explane this last step because there are no answers to find. @HEISENBERG



sponsorRead the whole script of tolmy.its pretty clear i thought.nice one u find


----------



## G.Patton

sponsor said:


> View attachment 7571
> 
> Can someone with know please explane this last step because there are no answers to find. @HEISENBERG



sponsorHello, it is wrong topic to ask. Look at here 1-Phenyl-2-propanone (P2P) Leuckart amination to amphetamine and methamphetamine.


----------



## T0R

G.Patton said:


> Hello, it is wrong topic to ask. Look at here 1-Phenyl-2-propanone (P2P) Leuckart amination to amphetamine and methamphetamine.



G.Patton
this picture comes from @serialz pdf file 

and this is on topic . 

N-formylamphetamine is what we have as a final product started from bmk salts 5449-12-7
and idd the last step is this picture posted today. 
I try it also with no luck

www.bbzzzsvqcrqtki6umym6itiixfhni37ybtt7mkbjyxn2pgllzxf2qgyd.onion/attachments/t6r0hfllrj-jpg.7360/

left N-formy right P2P


----------



## G.Patton

Saul said:


> this picture comes from @serialz pdf file
> 
> and this is on topic .
> 
> N-formylamphetamine is what we have as a final product started from bmk salts 5449-12-7
> and idd the last step is this picture posted today.
> I try it also with no luck
> 
> www.bbzzzsvqcrqtki6umym6itiixfhni37ybtt7mkbjyxn2pgllzxf2qgyd.onion/attachments/t6r0hfllrj-jpg.7360/
> 
> left N-formy right P2P



Saulok


----------



## T0R

G.Patton said:


> ok



G.Patton
this is the last step to complete the synthese


----------



## G.Patton

Saul said:


> this is the last step to complete the synthese



SaulThis method, which I linked in message above, is described last step of hydrolysis from N-formylamphetamine


----------



## T0R

G.Patton said:


> This method, which I linked in message above, is described last step of hydrolysis from N-formylamphetamine



G.Patton
thx you


----------



## ChingShih

Saul said:


> thx you



Saul
@Saul did you finally convert your n-formyl to a-oil? Can you post any results?


----------



## T0R

ChingShih said:


> @Saul did you finally convert your n-formyl to a-oil? Can you post any results?



ChingShih
no mate still stuck in the last step now 3 monts already


----------



## T0R

sponsor said:


> View attachment 7571
> 
> Can someone with know please explane this last step because there are no answers to find. @HEISENBERG



sponsor
would be nice if someone can translate this to normal words
what means
***** CONCENTRATED HCL 10M HCL 10ml
***** THIS SOLUTION WAS BASIFIED WITH SODIUM CARBONATE AND EXTRACTED IN TOLUEEN 3X50ml
***** THEN DRIED OVER ANHYDROUS SODIUM SULFAAT
***** HCL GAS WAS GENERATED NACI ( KITCHEN SALTS ) AND CONCENTRATED SULFONIC ACID WAS BUBBELING TRUE THE SOLUTION
UNTIL A PRECIPITATE WAS OBSERVED
AND SO ON AND ON


----------



## KokosDreams

Saul said:


> no mate still stuck in the last step now 3 monts already



SaulKeep going!


----------



## turk

this post contains so many unanswered questions.
all the experts do is answer with an existing link where you don't find the answer to the question at all.
they usually link you to a completely different preparation method.

I have the impression that braking bad is all about buying as many different chemical products as possible.

It is time to answer the questions that are being asked. without replying with an existing link .

this preparation here can be made quite cheaply and with legal products. I really don't understand why this isn't getting more attention.

it would be better if the forum invested in professional people
I think a lot of users are willing to pay for this.
so it's a win win situation


----------



## T0R

How do you make a 10 M HCl solution?

Answer 1

Add 8.26 mL of concentrated HCl to about 50 mL of distilled water, stir, then add water up to 100 mL. Mass percent solutions are defined based on the grams of solute per 100 grams of solution.

Answer 2

10M HCl indicates that the solution has a concentration of 10 moles per liter. To do this, it is necessary to add a ratio of 365 grams of HCl per liter of water.

People, please take some time to search with me for answers off this
picture. this is the only right way to do the last step.
if this picture is explane in normal lang we all can make freebase at the cheapest way possible.
leth this topic be legandary with your help .


http://bbzzzsvqcrqtki6umym6itiixfhni37ybtt7mkbjyxn2pgllzxf2qgyd.onion/attachments/gjuotsxwnl-jpg.7571/


----------



## G.Patton

turk said:


> this post contains so many unanswered questions.
> all the experts do is answer with an existing link where you don't find the answer to the question at all.
> they usually link you to a completely different preparation method.
> 
> I have the impression that braking bad is all about buying as many different chemical products as possible.
> 
> It is time to answer the questions that are being asked. without replying with an existing link .



turkI'm so sorry that you can't find information in our forum. I link to other post because we already wrote manuals with answers to your questions. It was done in order to help maximum amount of people. I can't write same in every theme.


turk said:


> this post contains so many unanswered questions.


Which question is unanswered? I made detached topic with clear reaction explanation *P2P synthesis from BMK glycidate ethers*. You are still unsatisfied.



> it would be better if the forum invested in professional people
> I think a lot of users are willing to pay for this.
> so it's a win win situation


You absolutely right. It is always better to pay for work to professionals instead of learn something absolutely new for you. Some people here try to figure out information and we try to help them. You have to understand that we can't give you basic chemistry knowledge. We not a school chemistry class, we just help with correct direction in own learning to beginners.


----------



## T0R

http://bbzzzsvqcrqtki6umym6itiixfhni37ybtt7mkbjyxn2pgllzxf2qgyd.onion/attachments/ksvsu5tnd7-jpg.7697/?hash=5a03666133709fce875bf255c8aaeb0d



7.2.4 Synthesis of Amphetamine hydrochloride

N-Formylamphetamine (1.31g, 8.03 mmol) and concentrated 10M HCl (10mL) were 
combined and heated to 130° C for 2 hr. 

The reaction was cooled, poured into water (200mL). 

This solution was basified with sodium carbonate and extracted into toluene (3 x 50mL), 

then dried over anhydrous sodium sulfate. 

HCl gas was generated 

(NaCl and concentrated sulfuric acid) was bubbled through the solution until a precipitate was 
observed, 

the solvent was evaporated to afford 2-amino-1-phenylpropane hydrochloride
as a brown solid (0.6 g) 

which was recrystallised from acetone to give a white solid 
m.p. 145-147° C 
(lit? 146-147° C). HPLC analysis indicated the purity of the
hydrochloride salt to be 82%, 
the yield of this reaction was (0.49 g, 37%).

'H NMR (200 MHz) 8: 1.4 (d, 3H, CHs), 3.05 (m, 2H, CH2), 3.55 (m, 1H, CH),
7.3 (m, 5H, ArH).

Gas chromatograph retention time: 4.30 minutes.
Mass Spectrum (EI) m/z: 135 (0.005%, M”"), 44 (100%), 91 (36%), 65 (27%), 42 
(18%), 51 (11%).
Infrared spectrum Vmax / cm’! Aromatic C-H 3000, N-H 3450.


----------



## T0R

here you find the full PDF file


----------



## wannabeechemist

Saul said:


> would be nice if someone can translate this to normal words
> what means
> ***** CONCENTRATED HCL 10M HCL 10ml
> ***** THIS SOLUTION WAS BASIFIED WITH SODIUM CARBONATE AND EXTRACTED IN TOLUEEN 3X50ml
> ***** THEN DRIED OVER ANHYDROUS SODIUM SULFAAT
> ***** HCL GAS WAS GENERATED NACI ( KITCHEN SALTS ) AND CONCENTRATED SULFONIC ACID WAS BUBBELING TRUE THE SOLUTION
> UNTIL A PRECIPITATE WAS OBSERVED
> AND SO ON AND ON



Saul1. M1V1 = M2V2. Determine your initial concentration and plug in the numbers
2. You are liberating freebase and adding extraction solvent to obtain clean product
3. Some water might get trapped in which might lead to problems in later step, MgSO4 is drying agent- removes water.
4. NaCl+H2SO4-----HCl (gas) + Na2SO4. You need to bubble that gas into dry freebase extract


----------



## ImOut

Hi Saul,

Question, I can see that you are struggling with this synthesis.

Why did you choose to go this route instead of NaBH4 / CuCl2?

I mean, the precursors are very easy to find, very cheap in bulk, and you can achieve as much as 90% yield as I do.

And it only took me 1 failed synthesis and success after the second.

Best regards


----------



## T0R

wannabeechemist said:


> 1. M1V1 = M2V2. Determine your initial concentration and plug in the numbers
> 2. You are liberating freebase and adding extraction solvent to obtain clean product
> 3. Some water might get trapped in which might lead to problems in later step, MgSO4 is drying agent- removes water.
> 4. NaCl+H2SO4-----HCl (gas) + Na2SO4. You need to bubble that gas into dry freebase extract



wannabeechemist
step 4 they just make from sulfuric acid and kitchen salt hydrochloric acid
and if they have it, they put Na2S04 to the solution. 
and then afterwards they just add it to the N-formy ? and then you see bubbles ?


----------



## T0R

eyelow said:


> Hi Saul,
> 
> Question, I can see that you are struggling with this synthesis.
> 
> Why did you choose to go this route instead of NaBH4 / CuCl2?
> 
> I mean, the precursors are very easy to find, very cheap in bulk, and you can achieve as much as 90% yield as I do.
> 
> And it only took me 1 failed synthesis and success after the second.
> 
> Best regards



eyelow
NHBH4 is banned 
you still find it, but prices are double now and still going up every week till it is gone
1kg is now 250€


----------



## T0R

also, P2NP prices going to the roof at the moment. It is not banned yet but I think it will soon
my secure shipping line ask for the moment 550 dollar / kg


----------



## ImOut

Don't know what suppliers you are using or what research you have done.

NaBH4 costs 120$/kg and P2nP 150$/kg. Pharma grade.


----------



## KokosDreams

eyelow said:


> Don't know what suppliers you are using or what research you have done.
> 
> NaBH4 costs 120$/kg and P2nP 150$/kg. Pharma grade.



eyelowDefinitely.

NaBH4 can also be purchased in the far east for 12.25EUR/Kg

Where is that info coming from that NaBH4 is banned? It is a restricted chemical where an end-user-agreement is asked for when it is bought from official companies, but it is not 'banned'.. @Saul ?
Also P2NP is still being used in the pharma industry, for the production of Adderal, I think it won't be banned too quickly


----------



## T0R

eyelow said:


> Don't know what suppliers you are using or what research you have done.
> 
> NaBH4 costs 120$/kg and P2nP 150$/kg. Pharma grade.



eyelowThis member limits who may view their full profile. 
LOL

I guess you dont wanna share your vendor ?


----------



## T0R

KokosDreams said:


> Definitely.
> 
> NaBH4 can also be purchased in the far east for 12.25EUR/Kg



KokosDreams
if you buy 5000 kg or 1kg ?


----------



## KokosDreams

Saul said:


> if you buy 5000 kg or 1kg ?



Saul50Kg


----------



## ImOut

Saul said:


> This member limits who may view their full profile.
> LOL
> 
> I guess you dont wanna share your vendor ?



Saul

You are right, you have bad attitude so no.

Good luck with your synthesis.


----------



## T0R

eyelow said:


> You are right, you have bad attitude, so no.
> 
> Good luck with your synthesis.



eyelow
cop alert !


----------



## KokosDreams

Saul said:


> cop alert !



SaulBruh have some respect  That is called privacy..


----------



## T0R

KokosDreams said:


> Bruh have some respect  That is called privacy..



KokosDreamsYou don't get respect, you earn respect through your involvement!


----------



## KokosDreams

Saul said:


> You don't get respect, you earn respect through your involvement!



SaulThere's definitely a bottom line of respect that I pay every human, especially those I don't know.

@eyelow is actually involved in the forum since a while and is synthesising freebase succesful already, which he is showcasing in pictures and soon in depth synthesis reports. He has helped many here already, including myself. No need to defend him tho but I think you should work on your attitude a little and don't jump that quick to assumptions


----------



## T0R

KokosDreams said:


> no need to defend him



KokosDreams
I seem to have struck a secret chord.
thanks for your input sir

on topic plz irc is a nice chat bot


----------



## flask

wannabeechemist said:


> 1. M1V1 = M2V2. Determine your initial concentration and plug in the numbers
> 2. You are liberating freebase and adding extraction solvent to obtain clean product
> 3. Some water might get trapped in which might lead to problems in later step, MgSO4 is drying agent- removes water.
> 4. NaCl+H2SO4-----HCl (gas) + Na2SO4. You need to bubble that gas into dry freebase extract



wannabeechemist


Saul said:


> step 4 they just make from sulfuric acid and kitchen salt hydrochloric acid
> and if they have it, they put Na2S04 to the solution.
> and then afterwards they just add it to the N-formy ? and then you see bubbles ?


Thanks, @wannabeechemist I also follow


----------



## h20

here you can calculate your 10M HCL solution just give in the numbers





Acid & Base Molarity & Normality Calculator


Acid & Base Molarity & Normality Calculator




www.flinnsci.com





if you use HCL 30% it is not needed to add water becouse it is not to strong

Your stock solution of *Hydrochloric Acid* is calculated to be *9.462 M* 
based on a density of *1.15* g/mL, a formula weight of *36.46* g/mol, 
and a concentration of *30*% w/w.


----------



## T0R

chemical products we need for the last step

NA2CO3 ( Sodium Carbonate ) CAS 497-19-8 Europe name is natrium carbonate
NA2SO4 ( Sodium Sulfate ) CAS 7757-82-6 Europe name is natrium sulfate
MGSO4 ( Magnesium Sulfate ) CAS 7487-88-9 Europe name magnesiumsulfaat
NACL ( Sodium chloride ) CAS 7647-14-5 Europe name is Natriumchloride ( keukenzout )
H2SO4 ( Sulfuric acid 96% ) CAS 7664-93-9 Europe name zwavelzuur ( WC ontstopper 96% )
HCL ( Hydrochloric acid 30-31%) CAS 7647-01-0 Europe name zoutzuur 31% purr
►► 31% HCL IS THE MINIMUM strength WE NEED FOR THIS SYNTH
NaOH ( Sodium Hydroxide, Pellets - CAS 1310-73-2 Europe name Natriumhydroxide
CH3OH ( Methanol ) CAS 67-56-1 
H2O ( Demineralized water ) CAS 7732-18-5 Europe Gedestilleerd water

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
You can save allot off time if you can buy everything on front 
All these chemicals are very cheap and legal in Europe also not on a watch list
I wanna thanks again the people that believe in this route and helping to find answers
we are almost there.
the promisland is waiting for us
ps: keep it on topic and no high jacking to other threats 
love Saul
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬


----------



## turk

*Gas chromatograph retention time: 4.30 minutes.*
_What is meant by retention time?_

Retention time is *the amount of time a compound spends on the column after it has been injected*.
If a sample containing several compounds,
each compound in the sample will spend a different amount of time on the column
according to its chemical composition i.e. each will have a different retention time.


----------



## T0R

today I try again.
after boiling with HCl for two hours, I separate layers. 
keep the black layer and basified to ph14 keep it mix for an hour .
then leth it rest for 6 hours and remove the water layer . 
after this I add toluene to the black layer but no layers form
and product destroyed. 
toluene smells exactly like thinner


----------



## tibby328

h20 said:


> 52% ? I did it with 89%



h20Your lying , i can put money on it the maximum yield is 50 oercent from the leuckart.


----------



## melk

tibby328 said:


> Your lying , i can put money on it the maximum yield is 50 oercent from the leuckart.



tibby328if you do it the long time way you get allot more than 50% ( info from PDF files )
when you mix mierenzuur + ammonium formate to an nice pH off 7 you get ammonium carbonate 
and then add your p2p to the carbonate
and let it room temp for seven days, you get allot more yield .


----------



## UWe9o12jkied91d

melk said:


> if you do it the long time way you get allot more than 50% ( info from PDF files )
> when you mix mierenzuur + ammonium formate to an nice pH off 7 you get ammonium carbonate
> and then add your p2p to the carbonate
> and let it room temp for seven days, you get allot more yield .



melkIn 1 mL scale with the help of heat and microwaves it is done in 1 minute with 90+ yields.I don't think anybody tried to scale it up, but would be cool


----------



## ChingShih

after 4 hours of boiling i got back yellow oil on top
i let it cool down and next day separated it and added boiling water to it 2 times to wash it
after the washing the oil became light yellow milky color
and the yield was very bad (40% - 200ml from 500g 5449)
at first i tried to add only 250ml water and 500g bmk powder but the bmk didn't dissolve and started to burn a bit so i added another 250ml water
and then the bmk finally dissolved

why is the oil now milk color? why is it not light yellow color like it was when it was converted?
and why was the yield so small? because of too much water added?
please guys share your experiences what it might be


----------



## sponsor

so you wa



ChingShih said:


> after 4 hours of boiling i got back yellow oil on top
> i let it cool down and next day separated it and added boiling water to it 2 times to wash it
> after the washing the oil became light yellow milky color
> and the yield was very bad (40% - 200ml from 500g 5449)
> at first i tried to add only 250ml water and 500g bmk powder but the bmk didn't dissolve and started to burn a bit so i added another 250ml water
> and then the bmk finally dissolved
> 
> why is the oil now milk color? why is it not light yellow color like it was when it was converted?
> and why was the yield so small? because of too much water added?
> please guys share your experiences what it might be



ChingShihso you want to make P2P from BMK salts?
what do you use for chemicals?
HCl does not work! 
I know it's all over the forum, but it doesn't work at all
you need a chemical with a much higher boiling point for good yields
and use enouch water to start with becouse 
the water evaporates first because the boiling point is lower
you need to start reflux when the temp is higher than 130°c
then you know the water is gone and then you boil in reflux for 3 hours


----------



## ChingShih

sponsor said:


> so you wa
> 
> so you want to make P2P from BMK salts?
> what do you use for chemicals?
> HCl does not work!
> I know it's all over the forum, but it doesn't work at all
> you need a chemical with a much higher boiling point for good yields
> and use enouch water to start with becouse
> the water evaporates first because the boiling point is lower
> you need to start reflux when the temp is higher than 130°c
> then you know the water is gone and then you boil in reflux for 3 hours



sponsor
Sorry forgot to add this: 

''cas 5449-12-7 has been tested on following procedure:
500g water, 500g bmk and 700ml phosphoric acid 75%''

And the pictures is what i got out of... so i did something wrong but now only question is what?


----------



## ChingShih

@sponsor

so you first boil the water, add the bmk powder slowly to dissolve, then add the phosphoric acid
and then boil the reaction without condenser on top until temperature of 130C is reached
and only then put the condenser on top and make reflux for 4 hours?
is this what i wrote now correct?


----------



## sponsor

ChingShih said:


> Sorry forgot to add this:
> 
> ''cas 5449-12-7 has been tested on following procedure:
> 500g water, 500g bmk and 700ml phosphoric acid 75%''
> 
> And the pictures is what i got out of... so i did something wrong but now only question is what?



ChingShih.


----------



## sponsor

ChingShih said:


> @sponsor
> 
> so you first boil the water, add the bmk powder slowly to dissolve, then add the phosphoric acid
> and then boil the reaction without condenser on top until temperature of 130C is reached
> and only then put the condenser on top and make reflux for 4 hours?
> is this what i wrote now correct?



ChingShihyes it is


----------



## ChingShih

sponsor said:


> yes it is



sponsor
thanks very much for answer
i probably made mistake, because i dumped the whole bmk powder in cold water inside flask
then it didn't dissolve and then i had to pour water again
i will try the recipe that is posted here again with proportions: 250ml water, 500g bmk and 700ml phosphoric acid 75%
this has to work


----------



## sponsor

boil the water start mixer and add slowly the bmk take your time for this

500ml phosphoric acid 75% is enough for 500gr bmk


----------



## tibby328

melk said:


> if you do it the long time way you get allot more than 50% ( info from PDF files )
> when you mix mierenzuur + ammonium formate to an nice pH off 7 you get ammonium carbonate
> and then add your p2p to the carbonate
> and let it room temp for seven days, you get allot more yield .



melkMate you dont have a clue what you are talking about. If even if you could do that, ammoina carbonate is otc and very cheap. Let me know where you can can buy ammonia formate ok. 
I dont think anyone on this site has a clue what they are talking about


----------



## tibby328

I dont think anyone on this site has a clue what they are talking aboutq


----------



## ChingShih

tibby328 said:


> Mate you dont have a clue what you are talking about. If even if you could do that, ammoina carbonate is otc and very cheap. Let me know where you can can buy ammonia formate ok.
> I dont think anyone on this site has a clue what they are talking about



tibby328
Instead of saying everyone here doesn't have a clue about what they talk then please enlighten us with your knowledge


----------



## tibby328

ChingShih said:


> Instead of saying everyone here doesn't have a clue about what they talk then please enlighten us with



ChingShih


ChingShih said:


> Instead of saying everyone here doesn't have a clue about what they talk then please enlighten us with your knowledge


You are ok, theres are to many people on this site who want spoon feeding, and alot more posting wrong techniques. I will save my knowledge for the real forum


----------



## tibby328

If you need help private message me


----------



## tibby328

tibby328 said:


> Mate you dont have a clue what you are talking about. If even if you could do that, ammoina carbonate is otc and very cheap. Let me know where you can can buy ammonia formate ok.
> I dont think anyone on this site has a clue what they are talking about



tibby328Sorry i sholdnt of said that my bad


----------



## tibby328

tibby328 said:


> You are ok, theres are to many people on this site who want spoon feeding, and alot more posting wrong techniques. I will save my knowledge for the real forum



tibby328My bad


----------



## h20

tibby328 said:


> Mate you dont have a clue what you are talking about. If even if you could do that, ammoina carbonate is otc and very cheap. Let me know where you can can buy ammonia formate ok.
> I dont think anyone on this site has a clue what they are talking about



tibby328you also have no clue idiot ! 
otherwise you didn't ask where you can buy ammonium carbonate


----------



## edyvanellende

h20 said:


> you also have no clue idiot !
> otherwise you didn't ask where you can buy ammonium carbonate



h20Bakery supply store .caled bakers ammonium


----------



## jokerr

bmk cas 5449-12-7 p2p +N-formylamphetamine + freebase +Amphetamine
I want to obtain amphetamine using this synthesis route. freebase - to amphetamine salt. 1 liter scale.
I want to make amphetamine from amphetamine free oil . thank you.


----------



## ChingShih

Members of forum what is your yield when converting 5449 powder with phosphoric acid?
Lets say if using 100g or 1kg? how much p2p oil in ml do you yield?
Do you also get white sediment on the bottom when the conversion of 5449 to p2p is finished?


----------



## oscar412

ChingShih said:


> Members of forum what is your yield when converting 5449 powder with phosphoric acid?
> Lets say if using 100g or 1kg? how much p2p oil in ml do you yield?
> Do you also get white sediment on the bottom when the conversion of 5449 to p2p is finished?



ChingShihFrom what you have already told me, it sounds like that white sediment is a powder that has been mixed with your B powder. I have had this before with P.


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## ChingShih

oscar412 said:


> From what you have already told me, it sounds like that white sediment is a powder that has been mixed with your B powder. I have had this before with P.



oscar412Yes mate it really seems like that - the white sediment could be something they add to get more weight out
But I always thought people get like 60-70ml or more p2p from 100g of 5449
Now it doesnt seem like this is the truth maybe more people will give their experience and we can compare how much someone really yields


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## UWe9o12jkied91d

ChingShih said:


> Yes mate it really seems like that - the white sediment could be something they add to get more weight out
> But I always thought people get like 60-70ml or more p2p from 100g of 5449
> Now it doesnt seem like this is the truth maybe more people will give their experience and we can compare how much someone really yields



ChingShihProbably some sodium phosphates? Some less soluble sodium or phosphor salts that result from conversion is my guess, but just looking at the formulas ,I have never worked with this..yet.


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## ChingShih

Is no one doing 5449 conversions anymore?
What are your yields from it? 
And did anyone figure out better conversion ratios for bigger yield?


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## UWe9o12jkied91d

ChingShih said:


> Is no one doing 5449 conversions anymore?
> What are your yields from it?
> And did anyone figure out better conversion ratios for bigger yield?



ChingShihI have some coming that I'm gonna play with,I'll keep the thread posted.


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## T0R

@ChingShih hello my friend. it is hard to know what you mean without pictures
but my first attempt ever, i had a white salt coating on the bottom of my p2p.
this was because I had not taken into account the PH values. 
my pH was so low that my mixer rod was completely dissolved. 
therefore, it is very important that you always measure your pH. 
if your ph is to low you need to add more bmk salt to the flask
if your ph is to high you need to add more acid
in subsequent attempts, I have not had this problem again


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## T0R

the first 2 stages in this synthese Iam verry good today my p2p is very pure and my 
N-formy is also great using amonium carbonate ( titrate ph7 ) 
dont use to much heat in stage 2 . after cooking for 14 hours .
I leth everything in the flask and leth it mix slowly for two weeks without heat


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## oscar412

T0R said:


> the first 2 stages in this synthese Iam verry good today my p2p is very pure and my
> N-formy is also great using amonium carbonate ( titrate ph7 )
> dont use to much heat in stage 2 . after cooking for 14 hours .
> I leth everything in the flask and leth it mix slowly for two weeks without heat



T0RAnd what yield are you getting


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## oscar412

T0R said:


> the first 2 stages in this synthese Iam verry good today my p2p is very pure and my
> N-formy is also great using amonium carbonate ( titrate ph7 )
> dont use to much heat in stage 2 . after cooking for 14 hours .
> I leth everything in the flask and leth it mix slowly for two weeks without heat



T0RYou are talking about the leuckart


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## T0R

@oscar412 75 % p2p
yes leuckart


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## oscar412

T0R said:


> @oscar412 75 % p2p
> yes leuckart



T0RThat is a very good yield, well done. What temp are you cooking at? And how are you doing hydrolsis? HCL or Naoh?


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## T0R

@oscar412 the last step is not working for me


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## oscar412

T0R said:


> @oscar412 the last step is not working for me



T0RWhay did you get 75% yield om then


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## UWe9o12jkied91d

oscar412 said:


> Whay did you get 75% yield om then



oscar412P2P -> formetorex


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## oscar412

UWe9o12jkied91d said:


> P2P -> formetorex



UWe9o12jkied91dWhat is formetorex


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## UWe9o12jkied91d

oscar412 said:


> What is formetorex



oscar412n-formylamphetamine, intermediary product in leuckart


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## oscar412

UWe9o12jkied91d said:


> n-formylamphetamine, intermediary product in leuckart



UWe9o12jkied91dI see. So he cannot get the hydrolsis to work. Just add naoh and water heat at 110 for 2 hours then extract woth dcm when it has cooled T0R


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## T0R

@oscar412 75 % p2p


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## T0R

This thread have the most views off the normal threads 45K


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## sponsor

Can someone with know please explane this last step because there are no answers to find. @HEISENBERG


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## edyvanellende

sponsor said:


> View attachment 7571
> 
> Can someone with know please explane this last step because there are no answers to find. @HEISENBERG



sponsorRead the whole script of tolmy.its pretty clear i thought.nice one u find


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## h20

tibby328 said:


> Mate you dont have a clue what you are talking about. If even if you could do that, ammoina carbonate is otc and very cheap. Let me know where you can can buy ammonia formate ok.
> I dont think anyone on this site has a clue what they are talking about



tibby328you also have no clue idiot ! 
otherwise you didn't ask where you can buy ammonium carbonate


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## edyvanellende

h20 said:


> you also have no clue idiot !
> otherwise you didn't ask where you can buy ammonium carbonate



h20Bakery supply store .caled bakers ammonium


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## T0R

@oscar412 the last step is not working for me


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## oscar412

T0R said:


> @oscar412 the last step is not working for me



T0RWhay did you get 75% yield om then


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## oscar412

UWe9o12jkied91d said:


> n-formylamphetamine, intermediary product in leuckart



UWe9o12jkied91dI see. So he cannot get the hydrolsis to work. Just add naoh and water heat at 110 for 2 hours then extract woth dcm when it has cooled T0R


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## Botsauto-Dutchland

someone know something about the reaction cas 5449-12-7 with Sodium lime ? Heating together the powders.....

The main components of soda lime are



Calcium oxide, CaO (about 75%)
Water, H2O (about 20%)
Sodium hydroxide, NaOH (about 3%)
Potassium hydroxide, KOH (about 0.1%).
Or is this a stupid thought ?


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## Botsauto-Dutchland

Dutch046 said:


> someone know something about the reaction cas 5449-12-7 with Sodium lime ? Heating together the powders.....
> 
> The main components of soda lime are
> 
> 
> 
> Calcium oxide, CaO (about 75%)
> Water, H2O (about 20%)
> Sodium hydroxide, NaOH (about 3%)
> Potassium hydroxide, KOH (about 0.1%).
> Or is this a stupid thought ?



Dutch046and yield with H2SO4 96% around 65% and h20 it should boil around the 150 otherwise i can add more 96.


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