# Methamphetamine crystallization and Ice manufacturing



## G.Patton

*Introduction.*​_What is the Drug Ice?_
“Ice” is the street name for pure methamphetamine (meth). Meth is a powerful stimulant that increases dopamine and makes a person feel a rush of euphoria and high-energy levels. Since a lot of street methamphetamine is adulterated with harmful chemicals, ice is prized for being a pure form of the drug, which causes a longer high.​


​_Are Meth and Ice the Same Thing?_
Yes, Ice (also referred to as crystal meth) refers to the rock or glass-like form of methamphetamine. Both crystal meth and ice are common street names for meth. However, ice does differ from other types of meth for things like appearance, strength, duration of effects, etc.

_Differences in Effects._
As a stimulant, all forms of meth can produce a ‘rush,’ which refers to feelings of euphoria and a burst of energy. However, using meth in different forms can alter the effects. For example, in its purest form, the effects can be stronger and can last longer. Using speed or base will still produce a high but may not be as quick-acting or strong. Speed is a powder form of meth that often contains other substances and is usually the least pure form of meth. Base is a damp or oily substance that is purer than speed powder and is often injected or swallowed but is not as pure as ice/crystal. In general, high purity means that the substance will produce a more intense high and for a longer period.​
*The way #1.*
A one-mole batch of P2P with 100% conversion would result in 149 g (one mole) of methamphetamine base, but the typical yield is 90-93%, resulting in 134-140 g of base. Meth base will quickly react with carbon dioxide in the air to form the carbonate, so it is advisable to crystallize the base as soon as possible. Crystallization is performed by adding 450 g (3 moles) of meth base to a 1000 ml Pyrex beaker and placing the beaker on a stirring hotplate. Carefully drop in a Teflon- coated stirring bar and begin stirring. One now adds 37% hydrochloric acid in 15 ml portions. A graduated 15 ml test-tube makes an ideal dispenser. A great deal of heat is generated as the acid reacts with the meth base and will result in boiling if added too quickly. Add 15 ml of acid at intervals of 1 minute until 19 portions (285 ml) have been added, then add acid in smaller portions and watch the color carefully. If the meth base was clean to begin with, it will turn light pink when the pH reaches 3-4. Test with pH strips (Colorphast 0-14 strips) or a meter. Stop adding acid when the pH reaches 3.

Now we must boil off the water contained in the acid, as water solvates meth very efficiently. Turn the heat on the hotplate to 4.5 while stirring continues, and place a thermometer that reaches 150 °C into the beaker on the bottom. Over the next 1.5 hours, the temperature will climb to 110 °C where boiling begins, then gradually rise as the water is boiled off. When the temperature reaches 130 °C, turn off the heat and remove the thermometer. Using a dishtowel, grip the beaker with both hands and quickly pour it into a 5000 ml plastic bucket containing 4.5 liters of acetone which has been frozen for 2 weeks. Retrieve the stir-bar with a chaser, replace the lid and return to the deep freeze for 1 week to allow complete crystallization. Clean, freshly distilled acetone will retain about 0.113 g of product the first time it is used, which is why one should recycle one's acetone. Alternatively, one can pour the hot methamphetamine hydrochloride into a 20 liters plastic bucket containing 15 liters of acetone that has been frozen for about a month (it takes a long time to pull the heat out of a large mass). The meth will crystallize the instant it hits the frozen acetone, although about 25% will remain in the acetone and must be frozen to crystallize.

Paradoxically, dirty meth crystallizes better than pure meth because the crystals quickly grow around a particle of impurity, forming nice large, hard crystals. The meth crystals are filtered out using a large Buchner, two 4000 ml filter flasks, and a high-volume vacuum aspirator. A 18 cm porcelain Buchner will hold a little over 1 lb of filtered product. Do not use Qualitative 5 filter paper for this filtration. This writer has found that the filters used in milk processing equipment are ideal for meth harvesting. A lot of money has been spent by the dairy industry over the years figuring out how to quickly filter solids out of mixed-phase solutions. These filters will allow liquids, both water and oils, to pass freely while trapping the finest solids, making them ideal for rapid filtering. The problem with the fine paper filters is that oil-water mixtures plug them up very quickly. Milk filters do not have this problem, and they are easy to find, cheap, and suspicionless. One will need to cut-to-fit, but this is a small inconvenience. A suitable high-volume filtering setup can be easily made using 5 and 20-liter buckets, a round plastic plate, and some glue. This writer was fortunate enough to discover a large Buchner being used as a planter by a nice lady in my neighborhood. Happily paying the lady for a replacement, the retrieved treasure holds over 0.9 kg of product and makes the chemist's life much easier. The point is that one can find useful equipment almost anywhere. Pure meth is more difficult to crystallize, and results in a light, flaky white product with a mild scent of marzipan (actually benzaldehyde). Empty the product into a large cake tray and let the acetone evaporate in the fume cabinet for a day or two, separating it as it dries.​
*The way #2.*
The product is about 90 ml of clear to pale yellow methamphetamine. We are ready to make his liquid methamphetamine free base into crystalline methamphetamine hydrochloride. Half of the product is put into each of two clean, dry 500 ml Erlenmeyer flasks. The chemist now has a choice to make. He can use either toluene or ethyl ether as the solvent to make the crystals in. Toluene is cheaper, and less of it is needed because it evaporates more slowly during the filtering process. Ether is more expensive, and flammable. But since it evaporates more quickly, the crystals are easier to dry off. If ether is used, it is anhydrous (contains no water). A third choice is also possible for use as a crystallization solvent. This is mineral spirits available from hardware stores in the paint department. Mineral spirits are roughly equivalent to the petroleum ether or ligroin commonly seen in chem. labs. Those brands which boast of low odor are the best choice, such as Coleman camper fuel. Before using this material, it is best to fractionally distill it, and collect the lowest boiling point half of the product. This speeds crystal drying. Since the choice of mineral spirits or naphtha eliminates ether from the supply loop, the clandestine operator may well go this route. Toluene is also a very acceptable solvent.

With the solvent of his choice, the chemist rinses the insides of the condenser, vacuum adapter and 250 ml flask to get out the methamphetamine clinging to the glass. This rinse is poured in with the product. Solvent is added to each of the Erlenmeyer flasks until the volume of liquid is 300 ml. They are mixed by swirling.​

​A source of anhydrous hydrogen chloride gas is now needed. The chemist will generate his own. The glassware is set up as in Pic.1. He will have to bend another piece of glass tubing to the shape shown. It should start out about 45 сm long. One end of it should be pushed through a one-hole stopper. A 125 ml sep. funnel is the best size. The stoppers and joints must be tight, since pressure must develop inside this flask to force the hydrogen chloride gas out through the tubing as it is generated.

Into the 1000 ml three-necked flask is placed 200 grams of table salt. Then 35% concentrated hydrochloric acid is added to this flask until it reaches the level shown in the figure. The hydrochloric acid must be of laboratory grade. Some concentrated sulfuric acid (96-98%) is put into the sep. funnel and the spigot turned, so that I ml of concentrated sulfuric acid flows into the flask. It dehydrates the hydrochloric acid and produces hydrogen chloride gas, and also goes on to make more HCl from reaction with table salt. This gas is then forced by pressure through the glass tubing.

One of the Erlenmeyer flasks containing methamphetamine in solvent is placed so that the glass tubing extends into the methamphetamine, almost reaching the bottom of the flask. Dripping in more sulfuric acid as needed keeps the flow of gas going to the methamphetamine. If the flow of gas is not maintained, the methamphetamine may solidity inside the glass tubing, plugging it up.

An even more distressing phenomenon can occur when using hardware store sulfuric acid. This material is not quite as concentrated as lab grade sulfuric acid, and the initial "push" of HCI gas in the flask can turn into a "pull". This vacuum will suck your product up the tubing and into the HCl generating flask. You can imagine how that really sucks!

When using lower grade sulfuric acid, one needs to watch carefully, or use a closely related procedure. In this procedure, the HCl generating flask is filled 1/4 full of hardware store sulfuric acid and the sep. funnel is filled with muriatic acid. By dripping the muriatic acid into the sulfuric acid, the HCI solution (muriatic) is dehydrated to dry HCI gas, and the gas is pushed out the flask and tubing. It is advisable to do a dry run first without product at risk when using hardware store acids in this procedure to avoid heartbreaking losses.

Another popular clandestine method using lower grade sulfuric acid is to put the salt in a mason jar, and punch two holes in the lid. Plastic tubing is attached to both holes. One line of tubing goes into the solution of free base meth in solvent. The other line of tubing is run to an aquarium pump or other source of air The low grade sulfuric acid is then added to the mason jar, and the air blower is started to slowly keep the fumes of dry HCI flowing into the meth free base rather than ever being sucked backwards.

Within a minute of bubbling, white crystals begin to appear in the solution. More and more of them appear as the process continues. It is an awe-inspiring sight. In a few minutes, the solution becomes as thick as watery oatmeal.​

​It is now time to filter out the crystals, which is a two-man job. The flask with the crystals in it is removed from the HCl source and temporarily set aside. The three-necked flask is swirled a little to spread around the sulfuric acid, and then the other Erlenmeyer flask is subjected to a bubbling with HCl. While this flask is being bubbled, the crystals already in the other flask are filtered out.

The filtering flask and Buchner funnel are set up as shown in Pic.2. The drain stem of the Buchner funnel extends all the way through the rubber stopper, because methamphetamine has a nasty tendency to dissolve rubber stoppers. This would color the product black. A piece of filter paper covers the flat bottom of the Buchner funnel. The vacuum is turned on, and the hose attached to the vacuum nipple. Then the crystals are poured into the Buchner funnel. The solvent and the uncrystallized methamphetamine pass through the filter paper, and the crystals stay in the Buchner funnel as a solid cake. About 15 ml of solvent is poured into the Erlenmeyer flask. The top of the flask is covered with a palm, and it is shaken to suspend the crystals left clinging to the sides. This is also poured into the Buchner funnel. Finally, another 15 ml of solvent is poured over the top of the filter cake.

Now the vacuum hose is disconnected and the Buchner funnel, stopper and all, is pulled tram the filtering flask. All the filtered solvent is poured back into the Erlenmeyer flask it came from. It is returned to the HCl source for more bubbling. The Buchner funnel is put back into the top of the filtering flask. It still contains the filter cake of methamphetamine crystals. It will now be dried out a little bit. The vacuum is turned back on, the vacuum hose is attached to the filtering flask, and the top of the Buchner funnel is covered with the palm or a section of latex rubber glove. The vacuum builds and removes most of the solvent from the filter cake. This takes about 60 seconds.

The filter cake can now be dumped out onto a glass or China plate (not plastic) by tipping the Buchner funnel upside-down and tapping it gently on the plate. And so, the filtering process continues, one flask being filtered while the other one is being bubbled with HCl. Solvent is added to the Erlenmeyer flask to keep their volumes at 300 ml. Eventually, after each flask has been bubbled for about seven times, no more crystal will come out and the underground chemist is finished.

If ether was used as the solvent, the filter cakes on the plates will be nearly dry now. With a knife from the silverware drawer, the cakes are cut into eighths. They are allowed to dry out some more, than chopped up into powder. If toluene was used, this process takes longer. Heat lamps may be used to speed up this drying, but no stronger heat source.

The yield of product is about 100 grams of nearly pure product. It should be white and should not get wet,except in the most humid weather, it is suitable for any purpose. It can be cut in half and the underground chemists will still have a better product than their competition. But they will not cut it until a few days have passed, so that their options are not limited should one of the problems described in the next few paragraphs arise.​
*Ice meth forming.*​For making a crystal line yet volatile derivative of meth similar to crack rocks, one just recrystallizes the nicely small crystals one gets by bubbling dry HCI through toluene. Crank rocks similar to crack rocks are pretty simple to make also. These would be just big crystals of pure meth hydrochloride. To get such big rocks, just dissolve the meth hydrochloride into a minimum amount of alcohol. Then let the alcohol evaporate away. As it evaporates away, it will make pretty large crystals of meth hydrochloride. An alternative recrystallization solvent would be acetone containing a bit of water. This will evaporate away faster, but give more of a tell-tale smell.​
*Crystallization common problems and solutions.*​Here are some of the common problems that arise with the crystals, and how they are dealt with. To spot these possible problems, the crystals are first left on the plate to dry out, and then transferred to glass jars or plastic baggies.

_Yellow Crystals._ This is caused by not properly rinsing off the crystals while in the Buchner funnel, or not using enough solvent to dissolve the methamphetamine in the Erlenmeyer flasks. To whiten them up, they are allowed to soak in some ether or toluene in a glass jar, then filtered again.

_Yellow Stinky Crystals._ The smell takes a few days to develop fully. They are left alone for 5 days, then soaked in ether and filtered again. The smell should not return. (The problem is caused by heating the reaction mixture above the °145 C upper limit.)

_Crystals Refuse to Dry._ This can especially be a problem using toluene as a solvent. It can also be a problem on very humid days. The crystals are placed in the clean, dry filtering flask, the top is stoppered and vacuum applied at full strength for 15 minutes. Warming the outside of the filtering flask with hot water while it is under vacuum speeds the process.

_Crystals Melt._ Here the crystals soak up water from the air and melt. This is usually caused by raising the temperature of the reaction too rapidly, or by collecting too much high boiling material during the distillation. First, they are put into the filtering flask and a vacuum applied to dry them out. They are soaked in ether or toluene and filtered. If this doesn't cure the problem, cutting the material to 50% purity should take care of it.

_Crystals Are Sticky._ Here the crystals seem covered by a thin layer of oily material, causing them to stick to razor blades, etc. The problem is dealt with in the same way as melting crystals.

_Crystals Fail to Form._ This problem occurs during the process of bubbling HCl into the methamphetamine. Instead of forming crystals, an oil settles to the bottom of the flask. This is generally caused by incomplete hydrolysis of the formyl amide. Perhaps it didn't mix with the hydrochloric acid. It is put in a flask and the solvent boiled off under a vacuum. Then 200 ml of hydrochloric acid is added, and the process is repeated, starting from the hydrolysis of the formyl amide of methamphetamine. The 35% laboratory grade of hydrochloric acid is used.

In the event of melting or sticky crystals, cutting is first tried on a small sample of the crystals to see, if that will solve the problem. If it does not, then a recrystallization must be resorted to. This i s done by dissolving the crystals in the smallest amount of warm alcohol, that will dissolve them. One hundred ninety proof grain alcohol, 95% denatured alcohol, or absolute alcohol may be used. Then 20 times that volume of ether is added. After vigorous shaking for three minutes, the crystals reappear. If not, more ether is added, followed by more shaking. After being filtered, the crystals should be in good shape.

A technique, which may be used in especially stubborn cases is to dissolve the crystals in dilute hydrochloric acid solution, extract out the oily impurities with toluene, and then isolate the methamphetamine. 
_This is done as follows:_
For every 100 grams of crystal, 200 ml of 10% hydrochloric acid is prepared by mixing 60 ml of 35% hydrochloric acid with 140 ml of water. The crystals are dissolved in the acid solution by stirring or shaking in the sep. funnel. One hundred ml of toluene is added to the solution in the sep. funnel, which is then shaken vigorously for about 2 minutes. The lower layer is drained out into a clean beaker. It contains the methamphetamine. The toluene layer is thrown out. It contains the oil grunge, which was polluting the crystals.

The acid solution is returned to the sep. funnel and the acid neutralized by pouring in a solution of 70 grams of sodium hydroxide in 250 ml of water. After it has cooled down, the mixture is shaken for 3 minutes to make sure that all the methamphetamine hydrochloride has been converted to free base. Then 100 ml of toluene is added and the mixture shaken again. The lower water layer is drained out and thrown away. The toluene-methamphetamine solution is distilled as described earlier in this chapter. Then, as described earlier in this chapter, dry hydrogen chloride gas is bubbled through it to obtain clean crystals. (Hydrogen chloride gas must be made in a well-ventilated area; otherwise, it will get into the chemist's lungs and do real damage.)

There is an alternative method for converting amphetamine free base into the crystalline hydrochloride. It is based on the method that South American cocaine manufacturers use to tum coca paste into cocaine hydrochloride. This method does not give the really high-quality crystals that the bubble-through method gives, but its use is justified when really big batches are being handled. In this alternative procedure, the free base is dissolved in two or three volumes of acetone. Concentrated hydrochloric acid (37%) is then added to the acetone while stirring until the mixture becomes acid to litmus paper. Indicating pH paper should show a pH of 4 or lower. The hydrochloride is then precipitated from solution by slowly adding ether with stirring. It will take the addition of 10 to 20 volumes of ether to fully precipitate the hydrochloride. Toluene or mineral spirits may be substituted for the ether. Then the crystals are filtered out using a Buchner funnel as described before, and set aside to dry. The filtrate should be tested for completeness of precipitation by adding some more ether to it.​


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## diogenes

Hi Patton, sorry if this is the wrong topic for this question and you have a more specific one for this (I will move it there then). My question relates to purification of the methamphetamine. I have a couple of grams from some time ago, they are left overs from several sources, but they are all cut/laced with something, so I didn`t find it safe to use, still I thought poerhaps one day I can purify it. Do you recommend any good methods use (or at least any first steps). It is very low quantity even if I put the different batches together I get about 3 grams I guess. 

I also have about 2 grams of burnt (brown) colour left over, I suspect it still contains some meth, becasue this one was from an old and good batch, at least I thought so, I might have never tried _real_ meth. To me the synthesis appears more conmplicated than amphetamine. and I don`t even know whether it`s worth it. I have just rea;lised that I have brought up 3 different questions 2 about purification and 1 about effect. I know the mainstream idea that meth is more damaging etc. but no official subjective comparison by someone who tried both being certain that he is using the right substance.


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## G.Patton

diogenes said:


> Hi Patton, sorry if this is the wrong topic for this question and you have a more specific one for this (I will move it there then). My question relates to purification of the methamphetamine. I have a couple of grams from some time ago, they are left overs from several sources, but they are all cut/laced with something, so I didn`t find it safe to use, still I thought poerhaps one day I can purify it. Do you recommend any good methods use (or at least any first steps). It is very low quantity even if I put the different batches together I get about 3 grams I guess.
> 
> I also have about 2 grams of burnt (brown) colour left over, I suspect it still contains some meth, becasue this one was from an old and good batch, at least I thought so, I might have never tried _real_ meth. To me the synthesis appears more conmplicated than amphetamine. and I don`t even know whether it`s worth it. I have just rea;lised that I have brought up 3 different questions 2 about purification and 1 about effect. I know the mainstream idea that meth is more damaging etc. but no official subjective comparison by someone who tried both being certain that he is using the right substance.



diogenesHi, Diogenes. You have to use recrystallization by alcohol, which is described in this topic, for meth purification.


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## diogenes

Thank you, for the burnt one (brown colour) as well?


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## diogenes

Also, I don`t have sufficient experience for the HCl part, can I just add H2SO4 and get metamphetamine sulphate?


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## G.Patton

diogenes said:


> Also, I don`t have sufficient experience for the HCl part, can I just add H2SO4 and get metamphetamine sulphate?



diogenesYes, but you won't get a pure semi transparent crystals.


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## G.Patton

diogenes said:


> Also, I don`t have sufficient experience for the HCl part, can I just add H2SO4 and get metamphetamine sulphate?



diogenesYes. I recommend providing it separately.


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## a_king

can you attach video of this process!?


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## HIGGS BOSSON

a_king said:


> can you attach video of this process!?



a_kingWe are preparing videos on many important topics, expect in the near future


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## a_king

is there any other way for making Crystal meth


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## a_king

can i Crystallize amphetamine?


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## G.Patton

a_king said:


> can i Crystallize amphetamine?



a_kingno, amphetamine has powder appearance


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## somethingsimple

Hi Patton, I have received some t-shirts that have been soaked and covered in meth (for ease of posting). i am not sure the process that was used to do this.what is the best way to extract the meth from the fabric and recrystallise? it is a cotton fabric


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## G.Patton

somethingsimple said:


> what is the best way to extract the meth from the fabric and recrystallise?



somethingsimpleUse water to dissolve it and than evaporate water. You'll get methamphetamine powder.


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## somethingsimple

G.Patton said:


> Use water to dissolve it and than evaporate water. You'll get methamphetamine powder.



G.Pattonthanks, is it possible to then use one of the methods you have described to crystallise the powder? is there a way i would be able to determine if it is sulphate? sorry, i am new to this


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## bigusdickus

Sorry, had to sign up to this forum to sound the bullshit alarm on this hogwash thread.
P2P = Racemic Meth = No 'ICE' *UNLESS* Using a chiral resolving agent such as L-Tartaric Acid, chiral catalysts, etc. You will LOSE much of your useless L-Meth racemate.
Bottom line you will not make 'ice' with racemic P2P meth.
Read your fellow admin posts on enantiomers, optical purity (important), and ee%.

Now if you enjoy racemic powdery, cloudy racemic product have fun! You wont get nice crystals without a chiral resolving agent.... sigh


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## bigusdickus

G.Patton said:


> Is it amphetamine sulphate? Use water to dissolve it and after evaporate water. You'll get amphetamine powder.



G.Pattonsorry, had to add a WTF to this post too. reality check


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## bigusdickus

G.Patton said:


> *The way #2.*
> The product is about 90 ml of clear to pale yellow methamphetamine. We are ready to make his liquid methamphetamine free base into crystalline methamphetamine hydrochloride. Half of the product is put into each of two clean, dry 500 ml Erlenmeyer flasks. The chemist now has a choice to make. He can use either toluene or ethyl ether as the solvent to make the crystals in. Toluene is cheaper, and less of it is needed because it evaporates more slowly during the filtering process. Ether is more expensive, and flammable. But since it evaporates more quickly, the crystals are easier to dry off. If ether is used, it is anhydrous (contains no water). A third choice is also possible for use as a crystallization solvent. This is mineral spirits available from hardware stores in the paint department. Mineral spirits are roughly equivalent to the petroleum ether or ligroin commonly seen in chem. labs. Those brands which boast of low odor are the best choice, such as Coleman camper fuel. Before using this material, it is best to fractionally distill it, and collect the lowest boiling point half of the product. This speeds crystal drying. Since the choice of mineral spirits or naphtha eliminates ether from the supply loop, the clandestine operator may well go this route. Toluene is also a very acceptable solvent.​



G.PattonFor real?? What planet are you guys from? Mineral Spirits? Naptha? FFS. Gassing properly requires a suckback trap and a drying trap. Water inside your gassed solvent will create red over acidified shit. Your solvent must be THOROUGHLY dried with molecular sieves, MgSO4, then filtered thoroughly.

Ether for gassing? Do you know how miscible Et2O is with water? It holds quite a bit. Therefore fucking your gassing. Unless you properly dry your HCl(g) and use a suckback trap. Still not a good idea.


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## G.Patton

bigusdickus said:


> Sorry, had to sign up to this forum to sound the bullshit alarm on this hogwash thread.
> P2P = Racemic Meth = No 'ICE' *UNLESS* Using a chiral resolving agent such as L-Tartaric Acid, chiral catalysts, etc. You will LOSE much of your useless L-Meth racemate.
> Bottom line you will not make 'ice' with racemic P2P meth.
> Read your fellow admin posts on enantiomers, optical purity (important), and ee%.
> 
> Now if you enjoy racemic powdery, cloudy racemic product have fun! You wont get nice crystals without a chiral resolving agent.... sigh



bigusdickusHello, can you change your tone, please. You have to respect other members of this forum. *One more badmouthing = get ban*.

This method was taken from *Secrets of Methamphetamine Manufacture: Including Recipes for MDA, Ecstasy and Other Psychedelic Amphetamines *book. Have you done ICE synthesis before? I've already posted about L-isomer manufacturing in Nabenhawer method.


bigusdickus said:


> For real?? What planet are you guys from? Mineral Spirits? Naptha?


Yes, real, what is a problem to dry them? From Earth, I guess.


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## bigusdickus

G.Patton said:


> This method was taken from *Secrets of Methamphetamine Manufacture: Including Recipes for MDA, Ecstasy and Other Psychedelic Amphetamines *book. Have you done ICE synthesis before? I've already posted about L-isomer manufacturing in Nabenhawer method.



G.PattonSorry but sometimes the truth needs to be laid out plain and simple unless you want an army of angry people failing at their hobby.

L-Enantiomer manufacturing? Like the inactive racemate? Might work well for the vicks corporation with those little inhalers but had little to no practical use whatsoever.

There are no 'secrets' to manufacturing PEA's. Read McMurray, Clayden, Klien, Vogel, Zubrick. Anyone claiming to be selling 'secrets' is just a snake oil salesman. There are no such thing as 'recipes' in chemistry. Recipes are recipies for harm to the chemist and those around them.

Yes L-Phenylisopropylmethylamine can produce optically pure shards with much effort and losses. The point of doing so? Kicking yourself in the nuts for no reason?

Don't take it like an insult, but constructive criticism. If I see hogwash bullshit like 'ice' from P2P without isolating the dextro enantiomer and the downright difficulty in doing so. It's bullshit. Racemic is not 'ICE', 'ICE' is D-Meth which in the past was commonly synthesized through the chiral ephedrine substrate.

Want 'ICE' ? or R-Amph? Start with the dutch resolution then move forward


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## rafael1985

bigusdickus said:


> Sorry but sometimes the truth needs to be laid out plain and simple unless you want an army of angry people failing at their hobby.
> 
> L-Enantiomer manufacturing? Like the inactive racemate? Might work well for the vicks corporation with those little inhalers but had little to no practical use whatsoever.
> 
> There are no 'secrets' to manufacturing PEA's. Read McMurray, Clayden, Klien, Vogel, Zubrick. Anyone claiming to be selling 'secrets' is just a snake oil salesman. There are no such thing as 'recipes' in chemistry. Recipes are recipies for harm to the chemist and those around them.
> 
> Yes L-Phenylisopropylmethylamine can produce optically pure shards with much effort and losses. The point of doing so? Kicking yourself in the nuts for no reason?
> 
> Don't take it like an insult, but constructive criticism. If I see hogwash bullshit like 'ice' from P2P without isolating the dextro enantiomer and the downright difficulty in doing so. It's bullshit. Racemic is not 'ICE', 'ICE' is D-Meth which in the past was commonly synthesized through the chiral ephedrine substrate.
> 
> Want 'ICE' ? or R-Amph? Start with the dutch resolution then move forward



bigusdickusMan good You say this and racemic methamphetamine will be never large crystals always powder


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## G.Patton

rafael1985 said:


> Man good You say this and racemic methamphetamine will be never large crystals always powder



rafael1985He said you need to get d-meth and then you can get large crystals from this d-Meth*HCl


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## rafael1985

Yes this I know.This recipes is famous in Netherlands but this is from Mexican cookers


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## rafael1985

rafael1985 said:


> Yes this I know.This recipes is famous in Netherlands but this is from Mexican cookers



rafael1985I don't know what is funny to You









Mexican Cartels Are Now Cooking Chinese Chemicals in Dutch Meth Labs


When Dutch police raided a barge last year, they found more than just a sophisticated crystal meth lab that started sinking as they inspected it.




www.wsj.com


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## G.Patton

rafael1985 said:


> I don't know what is funny to You
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mexican Cartels Are Now Cooking Chinese Chemicals in Dutch Meth Labs
> 
> 
> When Dutch police raided a barge last year, they found more than just a sophisticated crystal meth lab that started sinking as they inspected it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wsj.com



rafael1985It is funny because looks like a joke. Crystal meth was invented in 1919 in Japan. With all my respect, Mexicans used marijuana and opium at this time. If you read your article, you would know that it is about smuggling with helps of Mx cartels. Every chemistry student can make this, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to produce some meth from ephedrine.


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## rafael1985

G.Patton said:


> It is funny because looks like a joke. Crystal meth was invented in 1919 in Japan. With all my respect, Mexicans used marijuana and opium at this time. If you read your article, you would know that it is about smuggling with helps of Mx cartels. Every chemistry student can make this, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to produce some meth from ephedrine.



G.PattonListen I see You have problem to reading good.I did not say when they find meth but when this method is famous with separate d isomer and nothing about meth from ephedrine. You copy book and there is how to make racemic meth from P2P.This guy tell about d-meth and I say yes famous in Nl.Finish


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## G.Patton

rafael1985 said:


> Listen I see You have problem to reading good.I did not say when they find meth but when this method is famous with separate d isomer and nothing about meth from ephedrine.



rafael1985Can you change a conversation tone please? I don't want to insult you. I don't tell anything about you writing style here. If you write more clearly and explain what do you mean instead of show your hate, we would understand each other better.


rafael1985 said:


> I say yes famous in Nl


You did not.


rafael1985 said:


> is from Mexican cookers


It is not.


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## rafael1985

L



G.Patton said:


> Can you change a conversation tone please? I don't want to insult you. I don't tell anything about you writing style here. If you write more clearly and explain what do you mean instead of show your hate, we would understand each other better.
> 
> You did not.
> 
> It is not.



G.PattonListen we don't find agreement You think this I think that really only loosing time.


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## G.Patton

rafael1985 said:


> Listen we don't find agreement You think this I think that really only loosing time.



rafael1985Okay, don't waste time and read about it on Wiki or other sources before writing about "Mexican cookers".


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## rafael1985

G.Patton said:


> Okay, don't waste time and read about it on Wiki or other sources before writing about "Mexican cookers".



G.Patton I don't must search that's why I am on forum and ask expert.


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## Charlie3

I have got a batch of yellow stinky crystals now, can i soak it in Toluene instead of ether? 
Also, for ether, may i know exactly which Ether is this? Is it Petroleum Ether?


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## G.Patton

Charlie3 said:


> I have got a batch of yellow stinky crystals now, can i soak it in Toluene instead of ether?



Charlie3You can try


Charlie3 said:


> Also, for ether, may i know exactly which Ether is this? Is it Petroleum Ether?


Usually ether means diethyl ether, nevertheless you can try petroleum ether.


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## Charlie3

G.Patton said:


> You can try
> 
> Usually ether means diethyl ether, nevertheless you can try petroleum ether.



G.Pattonalright thanks! Still very new to this! In the case im not able to get diethyl ether, which would be your next recommended chemical to use?
Thank you for being so patient with my questions!


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## Phoneix73

G.Patton Path #1. Is D-meth or L-meth used in this route?​i love you so much i will give a production report soon


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## G.Patton

Phoneix73 said:


> G.Patton Path #1. Is D-meth or L-meth used in this route?​i love you so much i will give a production report soon



Phoneix73L-meth


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## Charlie3

G.Patton said:


> You can try
> 
> Usually ether means diethyl ether, nevertheless you can try petroleum ether.



G.PattonWell, ive tried, Petroleum ether got rid of the smell but smelled like petroleum a little now.

Toluene i tried soaking it for a few days. It still remained yellow.


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## G.Patton

Charlie3 said:


> smelled like petroleum a little now.



Charlie3You should dry it well with vacuum. I think it helps. Probably you have used not distilled petroleum ether. Am I right?


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## Fenster

G.Patton said:


> L-meth



G.PattonDon't you mean #1 will produce Racemic (D & L) 

Seems that the instructions for xtal formation in this write up are based on racemic. It's in contradiction to other write ups. Will be interesting to see the results over time.


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## G.Patton

Fenster said:


> Don't you mean #1 will produce Racemic (D & L)
> 
> Seems that the instructions for xtal formation in this write up are based on racemic. It's in contradiction to other write ups. Will be interesting to see the results over time.



FensterIt is already discussed in comments above


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## Fenster

Phoneix73 said:


> G.Patton Path #1. Is D-meth or L-meth used in this route?​i love you so much i will give a production report soon



Phoneix73@G.Patton 

Thats the question, your answer is just after. You said L-Meth. 

So, don't you mean Racemic?


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## G.Patton

Fenster said:


> @G.Patton
> 
> Thats the question, your answer is just after. You said L-Meth.
> 
> So, don't you mean Racemic?



FensterYou have to get L-Meth, then carry out procedures, which are described in the post.


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## Fenster

G.Patton said:


> You have to get L-Meth, then carry out procedures, which are described in the post.



G.PattonI'm sorry, which post? 

The original post is a description of how to crystalise meth after a reductive amination of p2p. After this there is some vague descriptions in the comments about rectification but nothing about L-Meth specifically. 

Sorry can you please clarify what you mean by "L-Meth" or point me to #step 1 where you are saying we need to get L-Meth (aka the least active isomer). 

If what your saying is true, we can make d meth from Vicks inhalers. So yeah that would be a huge plus for your site , and clandestine synthesis in general.


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## Fenster

> The way #1.
> A one-mole batch of P2P with 100% conversion would result in 149 g (one mole) of methamphetamine base, but the typical yield is 90-93%, resulting in 134-140 g of base.



P2P will result in racemic methamphetamine. I'm not sure where you got L-Meth from. Please advise?


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## Charlie3

G.Patton said:


> You should dry it well with vacuum. I think it helps. Probably you have used not distilled petroleum ether. Am I right?



G.Pattoni think so, will try to vacuum it and update here.


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## G.Patton

Fenster said:


> P2P will result in racemic methamphetamine. I'm not sure where you got L-Meth from. Please advise?



FensterYou got racemic methamphetamine free base, then you can carry out procedures with d-tartaric acid, which allows you to get L-meth. There is manual for amphetamine, methamphetamine isomerization is the same


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## UWe9o12jkied91d

Fenster said:


> P2P will result in racemic methamphetamine. I'm not sure where you got L-Meth from. Please advise?



FensterPrecipitate with either d-tartric and discard the precipitate then proceed to adding sulphuric OR use l-tartric discarding the liquid phase re-freebasing the l-tartrate d-amphetamine salt then proceed as normal, extracting, precipitating.
Same procedure can be done with camphorsulphonic acid, same principles apply for the 2 isomers.


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## finch3523

I saw some meth which was pure d-meth but was not crystallized. It looked more like many small clumps or rice. What method would that be?

I dont want to get stuff like a gas bubbler apparatus. I dont care if the end product is shards. So what would be most simple way to have a stable water soluble endproduct? I want to mix the meth with water at the end so I can dose it in mililiters. eg. 5ml would contain 10mg of meth.
Is freebase watersoluble? Probably not since it is oily??? What would be quickest thing to do with the freebase so its water soluble and stable?


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## G.Patton

finch3523 said:


> So what would be most simple way to have a stable water soluble endproduct?



finch3523Methamphetamine salts are water soluble.


finch3523 said:


> Is freebase watersoluble? Probably not since it is oily??? What would be quickest thing to do with the freebase so its water soluble and stable?


No, it isn't soluble in water. The simplest way is to make salt form.


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## Hank Schrader

It is one of the purest forms of methamphetamine and has a dextro isomer.

To date, we have high quality indicators, the purity of methamphetamine has reached 99% +

Metaphetamine has a specific rotation
the optically pure D isomer is [α]20D = -18.90° at 99%+ purity.

My product contains only dextromethamphetamine. We use fractional basic distillation and re-purification.
We do not dilute with methylbenzylamine and other substances.
Our product has the correct melting point

Our organization is ready for cooperation and is ready to cooperate with both manufacturers and large buyers.

We are ready to help with the supply of ready-made precursors and complete sets for work, as well as wholesale batches of finished products.


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## Kellyun

@Hank Schrader Good Work My Friend ! I am very Interested in working with you


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## ImOut

@Hank Schrader , you have turned on your privacy settings so it is not possible to get in contact with you.

Send me a DM, I'd like to talk. 

Best


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## oscar412

Can you give any insight into the isomer seperation hank?


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