# 4MMC/MEC large crystals



## Spindy122 (May 20, 2022)

I’m trying to find a decent method for large crystals. I’ve been heating the saturated solution to boiling then wrapping in a sleeping bag overnight to obtain them.

Problem is that I’m sure the heating to 100deg (the solvent is 100% water) is damaging the product and creating impurities. Would this be correct?

I have grown single crystals around 5mm thick, 10mm wide and 30mm long using this method but I feel it’s wasteful and inefficient.

Any ideas?

Also, I’ve recently synthesised 4MEC. When I tried synthesising 4EC it turned to shit real quick, extremely hard to crystallise. I accidentally synthesised 4M*C once which what I think was triethylamine and it crystallised very easily into blocks, not really active though. Would I be right is saying the longer the molecule, the easier it crystallises? I say this because Methcathinone is impossible to crystallise, and methylone is simple. Should 4MEC be easier than 4MMC?


----------



## Marvin "Popcorn" Sutton

A single 100ºC heating will definitely not damage your 4mmc.
Crystallization process conditions and parameters can be carefully selected to optimize crystal dispersion. In order for the crystalline product to acquire the desired properties, it is important to understand how the process parameters affect the main transformations during crystallization - nucleation, crystal growth, and decomposition.
In addition, different substances crystallize differently and have different lattice structures.
4mmc and 4mec most often have needle-like crystals, the other is harder to extract.
Have you read my topic on mephedrone crystallization?


----------



## Straightshot210

Thanks for the reply, sorry dual account (must have registered twice).

I’ve got a reasonably good understanding on it. I think I was making quite an impure product as I made my bromo-ketone with Cu2Br and failed to clean it up well before amination. I was also performing this second step without DMSO/NMP so yields were horrific - around 30%.

I extracted it with sulphuric acid, then turn back into a free base with sodium carbonate. After extracting that with xylene I added hydrochloric acid with water, then after separation I would boil it down over a long period which I feel may have either caused decomposition or simply concentrated the impurities along with the product.

At that point I would recrystallise the raw product with methanol, then freeze it out. Overall this reduced yield even more. My market demands a larger crystal size, the bucket in the sleeping bag works well, just wondering if there’s a more efficient method 

Side note: I recently achieved 70% yeild with DMSO. Very clean. This site is a lifesaver.


----------



## Straightshot210

Marvin Popcorn Sutton said:


> A single 100ºC heating will definitely not damage your 4mmc.
> Crystallization process conditions and parameters can be carefully selected to optimize crystal dispersion. In order for the crystalline product to acquire the desired properties, it is important to understand how the process parameters affect the main transformations during crystallization - nucleation, crystal growth, and decomposition.
> In addition, different substances crystallize differently and have different lattice structures.
> 4mmc and 4mec most often have needle-like crystals, the other is harder to extract.
> Have you read my topic on mephedrone crystallization?



Marvin Popcorn SuttonSorry, yes I have read that topic, fantastic advice thanks. I refrained from using alcohol as it made the crystal size too small.


----------



## William Dampier (Jun 6, 2022)

Use acetone with water or IPA with water and add more of this solution per powder (3ml to 1g, 5ml to 1g)


----------



## Acidosis

I use THE SOME METHOD 1g of powder to 3ml iso/3ml water.


----------



## ASheSChem

Acidosis said:


> I use THE SOME METHOD 1g of powder to 3ml iso/3ml water.



Acidosiscute color :3


----------



## Acidosis

ASheSChem said:


> lindo color :3



ASheSChemThnx bro!!


----------



## Straightshot210

Acidosis said:


> I use THE SOME METHOD 1g of powder to 3ml iso/3ml water.



AcidosisThese look great. Evaporation or slow cooling?


----------



## G.Patton (Jun 19, 2022)

Acidosis said:


> I use THE SOME METHOD 1g of powder to 3ml iso/3ml water.



AcidosisIs it 4-MMC? It has to be transparent. Did you add dye?


----------



## Acidosis

G.Patton said:


> ¿Es 4-MMC? Tiene que ser transparente. ¿Agregaste tinte?



G.PattonHry my slow response..this crystals no is 4mmc ,this crystals is bkmdma and is corored in the recrystalizer process


----------



## G.Patton

Acidosis said:


> Hry my slow response..this crystals no is 4mmc ,this crystals is bkmdma and is corored in the recrystalizer process



AcidosisLooks like over-oxidized product.


----------



## Acidosis

ab4mp said:


> Estos se ven geniales. ¿Evaporación o enfriamiento lento?



ab4mpSlo


ab4mp said:


> Estos se ven geniales. ¿Evaporación o enfriamiento lento?


Enfriamiento lento a temperatura ambiente


ab4mp said:


> Estos se ven geniales. ¿Evaporación o enfriamiento lento?





G.Patton said:


> ¿Es 4-MMC? Tiene que ser transparente. ¿Agregaste tinte?


No only added pink color in the recrystalizer proceso bro,


G.Patton said:


> Parece un producto sobre oxidado.


----------



## G.Patton

Acidosis said:


> Slo
> 
> Enfriamiento lento a temperatura ambiente
> 
> ...



AcidosisPlease, use English in public messages for everybody, respect our rules please


----------



## Acidosis

Yes sorry i written in engles but latter translate spanish automatly


----------



## Acidosis

Room temperature



ab4mp said:


> Estos se ven geniales. ¿Evaporación o enfriamiento lento?



ab4mp


----------



## fuckypu

This is what im get form 5kg powder 4mmc


----------



## johnny.b

fuckypu said:


> This is what im get form 5kg powder 4mmc



fuckypuWhat proportions You give for 1 g powder to crystalize.This last two pictures are 4 MMC to?


----------



## johnny.b

ab4mp_1 said:


> I’m trying to find a decent method for large crystals. I’ve been heating the saturated solution to boiling then wrapping in a sleeping bag overnight to obtain them.
> 
> Problem is that I’m sure the heating to 100deg (the solvent is 100% water) is damaging the product and creating impurities. Would this be correct?
> 
> ...



ab4mp_1How much water You give for 1 g powder.You crystalize maybe 4 cmc


----------



## fuckypu

The do
1g 4mmc
2ml water
0,5ml alkoholu Ipa
all picture is 4mmc for me cmc is shit


----------



## johnny.b (Sep 30, 2022)

fuckypu said:


> The do
> 1g 4mmc
> 2ml water
> 0,5ml alkoholu Ipa
> all picture is 4mmc for me cmc is shit



fuckypuYes dont want crystalize every way always fucked up.Must be IPA or can be ethanol,methanol or other alco.This two last pictures looks really noce You evaporate this or let closed


----------



## fuckypu

Ipa is better


----------



## johnny.b

fuckypu said:


> Ipa is better



fuckypuWhy this 4 cmc is hard crystalize?You have maybe experience with this or maybe You try?


----------



## fuckypu

No im made only 4mmc for me cmc is shit


----------



## johnny.b

fuckypu said:


> No im made only 4mmc for me cmc is shit



fuckypuYou mix HCl with water or acetone or You use to acidifcstion HCl 33-35% without mixing


----------



## Sopranos

Why do people like large crystals?


----------



## johnny.b

What method is good for evaporate when You mix HCL with water.If possibile is little cook to 70-80 degrees or this can damage product or will be less yield?


----------



## Hongkongchen

Way you do this way ?? Why u dont use acid hcl and acetone ?? Much more simple


----------



## johnny.b

I want try this and now I have much to evaporate will be last forever.Before I use concentrate HCl even without acetone always comes good .Now I don't know how to evaporate fast


----------



## Hongkongchen

If you use acid hcl you must drop him long but if you get ph 6 you drop aceton 30min mix and is finish


----------



## johnny.b

I hear this is good methods I must try but first mix acetone with HCl?What proprtions because is much schools


----------



## Hongkongchen

johnny.b said:


> I hear this is good methods I must try but first mix acetone with HCl?What proprtions because is much schools



johnny.bif you give hcl too fast then you will start to overheat the 4mmc freebase and you will start to smoke mephedrone and start producing impurities like iso mephedrone pyrizine. Then you lose a lot of quality and efficiency. There are different methods, experiment yourself and see what will be the best for you.


----------



## johnny.b

Yes I have one time situtation with blue colour .What proportions HCl with aceton will be good 1:5 or can be less?


----------



## Hongkongchen

You must get ph 6 and later the same you use acetone how much you have freebase


----------



## Netflix

Ten what im get last time


----------



## Netflix




----------



## Netflix

(+)


----------



## Netflix

(-)


----------



## Netflix

(#)


----------



## ASheSChem

so beautiful :3


----------



## Netflix (Oct 19, 2022)

Not so bad haha


----------



## Sergey Kush

4-MMC in dry methanol. T 15-20C, 1 week


----------



## Sergey Kush

4-mmc in Vodka (40% ethanol/60% water). T 25C, 3 weeks


----------



## Sergey Kush

4-MMC in water. T -8C, 12 hours


----------



## Sergey Kush

4-mmc in water.


----------



## Netflix

Only water is no posible with only water get like this crystal


----------



## Sergey Kush

IPA for crystallization 4-mmc is bad. Methanol is the best


----------



## Netflix

Im made with ipa and made like you see


----------



## Sergey Kush

It is possible. 1g of 4mmc to 0.7ml of water at boiling. Then just leave in cold place for 10-12 hours



Netflix said:


> Only water is no posible with only water get like this crystal



Netflix


----------



## Netflix

Im made with ipa and made like you see you made 3 week because you use to much water simple


----------



## Netflix

In acetone you can do ipa pure wodka from shop is much ways


----------



## Sergey Kush

Netflix said:


> Im made with ipa and made like you see you made 3 week because you use to much water simple



NetflixTry methanol - much more better than IPA


----------



## breathing.fire

Sergey Kush said:


> 4-MMC in dry methanol. T 15-20C, 1 week



Sergey KushHow much methanol You give for 1 g powder.


----------



## breathing.fire

Sergey Kush said:


> 4-mmc in water.



Sergey KushThis crystals are soft or hard?


----------



## ChingShih

How you guys clean the freebase? Only water or NaOH also or Sodium Bisulfite solution?
How long you cook the DCM with 2b4m and at what temperature?


----------



## Sergey Kush

breathing.fire said:


> How much methanol You give for 1 g powder.



breathing.fire7-8ml of methanol on 1g of 4-mmc


----------



## Sergey Kush

breathing.fire said:


> This crystals are soft or hard?



breathing.fireThis crystals are very hard. you must use a thick knife or screwdriver to pry these crystals away from the glass container


----------



## Sergey Kush

ChingShih said:


> How you guys clean the freebase? Only water or NaOH also or Sodium Bisulfite solution?
> How long you cook the DCM with 2b4m and at what temperature?



ChingShihafter the reaction of 2b4m with methylamine in DCM, the free base of mephedrone is washed 2-3 times with an equal volume of water. the reaction with methylamine lasts 4 hours at a temperature of 32-36C. do not bring DXM to a boil (38C), as DHM hydrolyzes when boiling, the free base will be heavily contaminated. if the temperature/time is observed, the free base will be very clean.


----------



## breathing.fire

Sergey Kush said:


> 7-8ml of methanol on 1g of 4-mmc



Sergey Kush7-8 ml for 1 g powder and You let this to evaporate all methanol?


----------



## Sergey Kush

breathing.fire said:


> 7-8 ml for 1 g powder and You let this to evaporate all methanol?



breathing.fireYes


----------



## breathing.fire (Oct 21, 2022)

Sergey Kush said:


> Yes



Sergey KushThis crystal where You put for 1 g 0,7 ml water are hard to?What temperature there is 8 or - 8 and 12 hours


----------



## Sergey Kush

breathing.fire said:


> This crystal where You put for 1 g 0,7 ml water are hard to?What temperature there is 8 or - 8 and 12 hours



breathing.fireYes. the optimum temperature is -8C. but you can leave it at room temperature (+20C), but then a lot of mephedrone will remain in the liquid phase. if the temperature is below -8C, then the water will turn into ice, and it will not be possible to separate the crystals from the water


----------



## Sergey Kush

breathing.fire said:


> This crystal where You put for 1 g 0,7 ml water are hard to?What temperature there is 8 or - 8 and 12 hours



breathing.firethe main condition for successful crystallization by this method is to ensure complete rest and immobility of the solution. even if you even touch the container, or clap your hands loudly next to the container, all mephedrone will instantly crystallize like an avalanche into a fine phase. and instead of crystals you will get viscous porridge


----------



## ChingShih

Sergey Kush said:


> after the reaction of 2b4m with methylamine in DCM, the free base of mephedrone is washed 2-3 times with an equal volume of water. the reaction with methylamine lasts 4 hours at a temperature of 32-36C. do not bring DXM to a boil (38C), as DHM hydrolyzes when boiling, the free base will be heavily contaminated. if the temperature/time is observed, the free base will be very clean.



Sergey Kush
thanks for answering
so do you add all the methylamine at once to 2b4m in dcm at 32-36C and then keep it at this temperature for 4 hours?
or do you add the methylamine slowly to 2b4m in the time span of 4 hours, and also keeping the reaction mixture at 32-36C?
which way is correct?


----------



## Netflix

How much do you use dcm on 1kg 2b4m ??



ChingShih said:


> thanks for answering
> so do you add all the methylamine at once to 2b4m in dcm at 32-36C and then keep it at this temperature for 4 hours?
> or do you add the methylamine slowly to 2b4m in the time span of 4 hours, and also keeping the reaction mixture at 32-36C?
> which way is correct?



ChingShih


----------



## Sergey Kush

Netflix said:


> How much do you use dcm on 1kg 2b4m ??



Netflix2,5l DCM on 1kg 2b4m


----------



## Sergey Kush

ChingShih said:


> thanks for answering
> so do you add all the methylamine at once to 2b4m in dcm at 32-36C and then keep it at this temperature for 4 hours?
> or do you add the methylamine slowly to 2b4m in the time span of 4 hours, and also keeping the reaction mixture at 32-36C?
> which way is correct?



ChingShihit is more correct to pour the entire volume of methylamine at once, but then it is very difficult to maintain the desired temperature. I do this: first I add 1/2 methylamine, and after 1 hour I add another 1/2 methylamine and continue stirring for another 3 hours. effective cooling is required in order not to raise the temperature above 36 ° C, since the reaction is exothermic and proceeds with a large release of heat


----------



## Sergey Kush

ChingShih said:


> thanks for answering
> so do you add all the methylamine at once to 2b4m in dcm at 32-36C and then keep it at this temperature for 4 hours?
> or do you add the methylamine slowly to 2b4m in the time span of 4 hours, and also keeping the reaction mixture at 32-36C?
> which way is correct?



ChingShihyou need to understand that in our country (Russia - yes, that same abode of evil, where a fucking dictator rules, but good people live))) 2b4m is banned. so I have to make 2b4m by brominating 4m. and I get a concentration of approximately 2.5 liters of DCM per 1kg 2b4m. this must also be taken into account. available concentration of methylamine - 38% in aqueous solution


----------



## breathing.fire

I1 kg 2b4m



Sergey Kush said:


> you need to understand that in our country (Russia - yes, that same abode of evil, where a fucking dictator rules, but good people live))) 2b4m is banned. so I have to make 2b4m by brominating 4m. and I get a concentration of approximately 2.5 liters of DCM per 1kg 2b4m. this must also be taken into account. available concentration of methylamine - 38% in aqueous solution



Sergey KushHow much You use methylamine for 1 kg 2b4m


----------



## Sergey Kush

breathing.fire said:


> I1 kg 2b4m
> 
> How much You use methylamine for 1 kg 2b4m



breathing.fire1,5l methylamine for 1kg 2b4m.


----------



## breathing.fire

And what yield You have from this powder


----------



## ChingShih

Sergey Kush said:


> it is more correct to pour the entire volume of methylamine at once, but then it is very difficult to maintain the desired temperature. I do this: first I add 1/2 methylamine, and after 1 hour I add another 1/2 methylamine and continue stirring for another 3 hours. effective cooling is required in order not to raise the temperature above 36 ° C, since the reaction is exothermic and proceeds with a large release of heat



Sergey Kush
Sergey thanks very very much for you answer on my questions, do you close the reaction vessel with stopper or do you put condenser on top of it?
Is it better to stop the Methylamine gas from escaping completely, or is it better to try to condense it back? 
If you put stopper on reaction vessel, does it produce pressure which has to be released during reaction?
And last, what is your yield from 1kg 2b4m? how much powder and how much then crystal after crystalization?


----------



## Sergey Kush

ChingShih said:


> Sergey thanks very very much for you answer on my questions, do you close the reaction vessel with stopper or do you put condenser on top of it?
> Is it better to stop the Methylamine gas from escaping completely, or is it better to try to condense it back?
> If you put stopper on reaction vessel, does it produce pressure which has to be released during reaction?
> And last, what is your yield from 1kg 2b4m? how much powder and how much then crystal after crystalization?



ChingShihI do not close the reaction vessel so as not to create excess pressure. the vessel is open all the way. I don't use a condenser or dephlegmator either. methylamine leaves the vessel, but only a small part - this is not essential (for this we use an excess of methylamine). yield with 1kg 2b4m approximately 670-690g of flour. in crystals - 640-650g


----------



## tetrazole

Hi guys. Any ideas under what conditions it is possible to obtain such 4mmc crystals?


----------



## Netflix

tetrazole said:


> Hi guys. Any ideas under what conditions it is possible to obtain such 4mmc crystals?



tetrazoleThis what you have is 4\3cmc 4mmc you get other form crystal


----------



## hlebsladky2

Sergey Kush said:


> I do not close the reaction vessel so as not to create excess pressure. the vessel is open all the way. I don't use a condenser or dephlegmator either. methylamine leaves the vessel, but only a small part - this is not essential (for this we use an excess of methylamine). yield with 1kg 2b4m approximately 670-690g of flour. in crystals - 640-650g



Sergey KushPrivet! Nice to see you back, Serega!


----------



## hlebsladky2

Sergey Kush said:


> I do not close the reaction vessel so as not to create excess pressure. the vessel is open all the way. I don't use a condenser or dephlegmator either. methylamine leaves the vessel, but only a small part - this is not essential (for this we use an excess of methylamine). yield with 1kg 2b4m approximately 670-690g of flour. in crystals - 640-650g



Sergey KushDo you know any fine way to craft 4methylpropiophenone? Since, it's hard to find now as far as you know.


----------



## Acidosis

hlebsladky2 said:


> Do you know any fine way to craft 4methylpropiophenone? Since, it's hard to find now as far as you know.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## ymaaah

Acidosis said:


> I use THE SOME METHOD 1g of powder to 3ml iso/3ml water.



Acidosislooks like a strawberry granita


----------



## subzero013

Sergey Kush said:


> 4-MMC in dry methanol. T 15-20C, 1 week



Sergey KushThese photos were posted by the user with the same nickname as you have on another forum more than a year ago and there he claimed that they were received not from methanol, but from a mixture of methanol and nephras. The time of crystallization then you indicated not 1 week, but 9 hours. Are you a fake? As far as I remember, Kush had problems and in Russian -speaking forums he did not appear since summer.


----------



## Didi (Nov 20, 2022)

Hi guys this is what im get only from water


----------



## Didi

And this is from vodka 40%


----------



## ChingShih

ChemManDamn said:


> Only water and 4-mmc. Crystallization in thermos



ChemManDamn
How long did it take that such crystals apeared in thermos? And what was the water:mmc ratio?
Also what was your powder vs crystalised mmc yield - how much you lost in the crystalisation process?


----------



## subzero013

Didi said:


> Hi guys this is what im get only from water



Didiwere able to wash to white/transparent color?


----------



## Didi

Yes of cours


----------



## Serega

Didi said:


> Yes of cours



Didiwhat proportion of water/4-mmc? What is the temperature of the solution and at what temperature should the solution be left? how long does crystallization take?


----------



## Didi

12h


----------



## Didi

subzero013 said:


> były w stanie wyprać do koloru białego/przezroczystego?



subzero013Y


----------



## Chemix-Express

Well-cleaned powder, low dissolving temp and this is what it looks like after standing motionless at room temperature for 18h


----------



## george123

How much water You give per 1 g powder


----------



## Chemix-Express

Splinters from the walls of the vessel


----------



## Chemix-Express

Crystal proper


----------



## ChingShih

Chemix-Express said:


> Crystal proper



Chemix-Express
What was your process to obtain such crystals?


----------



## StarWars




----------



## Acidosis

StarWars said:


>



StarWarsPerfect bro


----------



## Mellym

Not that I'm boasting, but once there was a time...


----------



## Acidosis

Mellym said:


> Not that I'm boasting, but once there was a time...
> 
> View attachment 9001View attachment 9000



MellymThis looks amazing!!nice bro


----------

