# Electrolytic reduction of P2NP to yield amphetamine



## idunno (Apr 25, 2022)

Did any of you ever manage to make it work? It's a method described in the US patent 1,879,003.


```
1 mol of phenyl-2-nitropropene, C6H5CH=C(CH3)NO2, is dissolved with a solvent
prepared by mixing 1000ml of ethanol with 500ml of acetic acid and 500ml of 12 N
sulfuric acid. The resultant solution is placed in the cathode compartment of a
divided electrolytic cell containing a metallic cathode of mercury, copper, or
other metal of similar nature. Current is passed, using a current density of
~0.2 amp/cm2 of cathode surface. The temperature is kept at about 40°C during
the electrolysis which is continued until at least eight Faradays of electricity
have been passed.

When the reduction is completed, the amphetamine may be separated from the
solution. A convenient way of doing this is by removing the ethanol and ethyl
acetate present by evaporation and then making the residual solution strongly
alkaline by addition of caustic alkali. The basic layer thus formed is separated
from the aqueous solution and contains the desired amphetamine freebase.
```

It looks nice because it doesn't use any mercury, which is not easily available and also toxic.

I managed to make it work but I have a hard time increasing my yield past the point of 10%.  Which is extremely poor, but I am a beginner hobby chemist so I hope that maybe someone here would have some advice as to how to make it work better. I never see anyone talk about this route, but I think that figuring out how to master it would benefit us all. One can make meth and MDA in a very similar way too according to Uncle Fester.

I guess that my issue might be in the fact that my P2NP sometimes turns red during the electrolysis. *What does it mean when P2NP turns red?* Is this decomposition? If so, how do I avoid it?
Or is my P2NP just old and spoiled? Could be as it's 1 year old, but it was kept in a fridge and looks ok while still in a jar (bright yellow).

I'm also thinking that the sulfuric acid might be making this entire thing so fragile? I read somewhere here that amphetamine salts can be damaged by too much acid... But it has to be there in order to make the electricity flow (it's an electrolyte). I tried to add water before evaporating ethanol and ethyl acetate to dilute the acid and it did help the yield but it's still only 10% (was 2% before lol).

It has to be possible to make it work, it's a patented method and the author claims possible good yields. If anyone has any suggestions it would be very helpful and appreciated.


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## MadHatter (Apr 25, 2022)

I love this post and I want to marry it.

I have been thinking about the possibility of electrochemical reduction in amphetamine production for some time, but never got around to trying it out. You're an absolute KING for doing it.
I've never seen a write-up ANYWHERE for it, not on any bee forum and not on Erowid or The Hive, which made me wonder why? For me as a noob, this should have great potential.
Maybe the answer is in the low yield. But what yields were reported in the experimental section of the patent?
Have you tried the more classic route with the P2NP, and if yes, what yields did that produce?

The other thing is the actual amount of energy that would need to pass through the vessel. 8 faradays would mean 4-5 _days_ of 2 amps, right? If one is working with a cathode of aproximately 10 cm2. Or are my noobish calculations off?


Spoiler: Noobish calculations



1 faraday = 96500 coloumbs. 
8 faradays = 96500 c x 8 = 772000 coloumbs
1 coloumb = 1 amp x 1 sec
2 amps for 1 hour = 2 x 60 min x 60 s = 7200 couloumb
772 000 c / 7200 c = 107 (hours of 2 amps) = 4-5 days
If the current density is supposed to be 0,2 amps per cm2, then 2 amps should be passed through 10 cm2.




So can you give a more detailed write-up of your process? What was the exact weights and concentrations of your reactants, what was the temperature, voltage/amps, how was your cell constructed, how long did you run it for and what materials did you use for the anode and cathode?


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## Needtolearn

Mercury is easy to get if you don't mind the high prices. MANY Periodic table/element collection sites sells this. example under:









Mercury Metal 99.99% — Luciteria


Back in the 70's mercury was in every American home where several grams' worth was to be found in every thermometer. The EPA came down hard on the sale and transport of mercury when it was found at alarming levels in the environment; not due to broken thermometers so much as poor industrial practice




luciteria.com


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## BHBlueberry

500ml of Acetic Acid tells me everything I want - never ever


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## MadHatter

BHBlueberry said:


> 500ml of Acetic Acid tells me everything I want - never ever



BHBlueberrySorry, what do you mean?


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## BHBlueberry

I mean neutralization of this acid


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## MadHatter

I would be more worried about neutralization of 500 ML 12 N sulphuric acid ... these and other parts of this text is why I'm longing so much for a detailed write-up from OP. It would be super interesting!


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## chemden

Has anyone tried this method? If so, what results did you get?


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## chemden (Jul 31, 2022)

Here is the patent https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/09/06/9b/8c502c56aecb07/US1879003.pdf.


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## chemden

BHBlueberry said:


> 500ml of Acetic Acid tells me everything I want - never ever



BHBlueberryIn the original publication, the author mentions that you can evaporate ethanol and acetic acid. You will need to neutralize only H2SO4.

I don't know how easy you can find NaOH in your country. In my case, I can walk into a construction store and ask for "caustic soda," which is NaOH.


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