# need help converting 5449-12-7 and 20320-59-6



## strangerdanger

been trying to convert both of these CAS to p2p without any luck. Ive attempted many different recipes for each and still no luck. 

i doubt its the product as i have different samples from different suppliers and end up with the same. 

willing to donate XMR for help with successful conversion


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## btcboss2022

I had success with 20320-59-6 liquid form but not with 5449-12-7 powder yet but I will get it for sure ;-) making some tests now.


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## strangerdanger

btcboss2022 said:


> I had success with 20320-59-6 liquid form but not with 5449-12-7 powder yet but I will get it for sure ;-) making some tests now.



btcboss2022
NICE. Sent you PM


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## btcboss2022

Hello,

For CAS 5449-12-7 I did the official process of 1:3hcl refluxing 5 hours and it don't works properly very low yield and solid residue produced we made it 2 times we will add some changes and update you.


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## strangerdanger

btcboss2022 said:


> Hello,
> 
> For CAS 5449-12-7 I did the official process of 1:3hcl refluxing 5 hours and it don't works properly very low yield and solid residue produced we made it 2 times we will add some changes and update you



btcboss2022Thanks for the update. I sent you a private message couple days ago


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## T0R

strangerdanger said:


> Thanks for the update. I sent you a private message couple days ago



strangerdanger
hello , plz dont sent it private . this is a forum to help others to just share it here so other people
can start from this and even improove it


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## btcboss2022

We changed 2 parts oh HCL for 2 parts o acetic acid without many changes.


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## Bertusbats

Succes?



btcboss2022 said:


> We changed 2 parts oh HCL for 2 parts o acetic acid without many changes



btcboss2022


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## Selassi

Did u try phosphoric acid?


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## Selassi

1:1,5L not kg


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## btcboss2022

Bertusbats said:


> Succes?



BertusbatsHello I tested many ways and the best yield with HCL is:

BMK powder 1Kg: H2O 1 liter: HCL 3 liters

Better dissolve the powder stirring in the hot H2O and later add the HCL

90C reflux at least 5 hours.

I will test phosphoric method soon and update you.


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## Selassi

btcboss2022 said:


> Hello I tested many ways and the best yield with HCL is:
> 
> BMK powder 1Kg: H2O 1 liter: HCL 3 liters
> 
> Better dissolve the powder stirring in the hot H2O and later add the HCL
> 
> 90C reflux at least 5 hours.
> 
> I will test phosphoric method soon and update you.



btcboss2022Have u made any progress on the 5449?
What was the yield?


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## T0R

dont get it 5449 is easy to buy but nobody can transfer it to pgp


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## T0R

btcboss2022 said:


> Hello I tested many ways and the best yield with HCL is:
> 
> BMK powder 1Kg: H2O 1 liter: HCL 3 liters
> 
> Better dissolve the powder stirring in the hot H2O and later add the HCL
> 
> 90C reflux at least 5 hours.
> 
> I will test phosphoric method soon and update you.



btcboss2022
you had explane step by step someware but I not can find it and what is HCL zoutzuur ?


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## Selassi

HCl is hydrochloric acid, also known as zoutzuur indeed


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## T0R

Selassi said:


> HCl is hydrochloric acid, also known as zoutzuur indeed



Selassi
there is only 30% pure this means there is 70% water in it so the amount off water use for this synthesis is lower I guess?
is this also the one he use here ?


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## T0R

I think 300 ml water is enoug if HCI 30% is use . 
is this possible ?


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## Selassi

Yes HCl 37% is mostly used in conversions. If u use water or.not depends on the recipe needed with the specified CAS

But there are many ways for this conversion


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## btcboss2022

Hello again,

Ok I tested with phosphoric acid and is a cheaper synth because less product must be used and possibly shorter too:


BMK powder(CAS 5449-12-7)1Kg: H2O 0,5 liter: Phosphoric acid 85% 1,2 liters

Better dissolve the powder stirring in the hot H2O and later add Phosphoric

120C reflux at least 3 hours( I did it 5 hours and no difference with final result)

With 20kg of powder I obtained 13 liters of "dirty" oil that must be purified or not depend the final use.

The aquos phase could be extracted with DCM but I did it and not enough product to this long job but each one can decide.

;-)


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## ChingShih

btcboss2022 said:


> Hello again,
> 
> Ok I tested with phosphoric acid and is a cheaper synth because less product must be used and possibly shorter too:
> 
> 
> BMK powder(CAS 5449-12-7)1Kg: H2O 0,5 liter: Phosphoric acid 85% 1,2 liters
> 
> Better dissolve the powder stirring in the hot H2O and later add Phosphoric
> 
> 120C reflux at least 3 hours( I did it 5 hours and no difference with final result)
> 
> With 20kg of powder I obtained 13 liters of "dirty" oil that must be purified or not depend the final use.
> 
> The aquos phase could be extracted with DCM but I did it and not enough product to this long job but each one can decide.
> 
> ;-)



btcboss2022
Do you thing using 2.4 liters Phosphoric acid 85% would give out more yield?
Did you basify (adding 50% Naoh) to the obtained oil after reaction? 
Would you need to use vacuum for purifying that ''dirty'' oil? 
Or normal steam distillation work?


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## btcboss2022

ChingShih said:


> Do you thing using 2.4 liters Phosphoric acid 85% would give out more yield?MOre
> Did you basify (adding 50% Naoh) to the obtained oil after reaction?
> Would you need to use vacuum for purifying that ''dirty'' oil?
> Or normal steam distillation work?



ChingShihIn that case more acid won't increase the yield.
I don't basify the oil layer is separated.
About purication you can choose the method that you prefer don't affect final product.


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## ChingShih

btcboss2022 said:


> In that case more acid won't increase the yield.
> I don't basify the oil layer is separated.
> About purication you can choose the method that you prefer don't affect final product.



btcboss2022
So the obtained oil after conversion from bmk powder can be used straight to leuckart or other reduction methods?
What do you think is the highest % yield reduction method from p2p to amph?


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## T0R

ChingShih said:


> So the obtained oil after conversion from bmk powder can be used straight to leuckart or other reduction methods?
> What do you think is the highest % yield reduction method from p2p to amph?



ChingShih
good question


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## Selassi

ChingShih said:


> So the obtained oil after conversion from bmk powder can be used straight to leuckart or other reduction methods?
> What do you think is the highest % yield reduction method from p2p to amph?



ChingShihYes can be used directly for further processing


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## btcboss2022

ChingShih said:


> So the obtained oil after conversion from bmk powder can be used straight to leuckart or other reduction methods?
> What do you think is the highest % yield reduction method from p2p to amph?



ChingShihHello,

Obviously the best yield of amph from P2P is converting it in A-Oil(Amphetamine freebase) and make the sulfate from it.
From a good A-oil you can get 2.8kg until 3kg of amph sulfate ;-)


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## ChingShih

btcboss2022 said:


> Hello,
> 
> Obviously the best yield of amph from P2P is converting it in A-Oil(Amphetamine freebase) and make the sulfate from it.
> From a good A-oil you can get 2.8kg until 3kg of amph sulfate ;-)



btcboss2022
Sorry you understood my question wrong, I was asking what gives the most yield % - reductive amination method from p2p to amphetamine?
Other than Al/Hg or Leuckart Wallach ?


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## Brombeer88

btcboss2022 said:


> Hello again,
> 
> Ok I tested with phosphoric acid and is a cheaper synth because less product must be used and possibly shorter too:
> 
> 
> BMK powder(CAS 5449-12-7)1Kg: H2O 0,5 liter: Phosphoric acid 85% 1,2 liters
> 
> Better dissolve the powder stirring in the hot H2O and later add Phosphoric
> 
> 120C reflux at least 3 hours( I did it 5 hours and no difference with final result)
> 
> With 20kg of powder I obtained 13 liters of "dirty" oil that must be purified or not depend the final use.
> 
> The aquos phase could be extracted with DCM but I did it and not enough product to this long job but each one can decide.
> 
> ;-)



btcboss2022


btcboss2022 said:


> Hello again,
> 
> Ok I tested with phosphoric acid and is a cheaper synth because less product must be used and possibly shorter too:
> 
> 
> BMK powder(CAS 5449-12-7)1Kg: H2O 0,5 liter: Phosphoric acid 85% 1,2 liters
> 
> Better dissolve the powder stirring in the hot H2O and later add Phosphoric
> 
> 120C reflux at least 3 hours( I did it 5 hours and no difference with final result)
> 
> With 20kg of powder I obtained 13 liters of "dirty" oil that must be purified or not depend the final use.
> 
> The aquos phase could be extracted with DCM but I did it and not enough product to this long job but each one can decide.
> 
> ;-)


at 5449-12-7

1 kg ap 0.5 water 1.2 phorsphor
140 degrees 5 hours with agitator
You have to get 140 degrees at a lower temperature you get dirty oil


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## ChingShih

Brombeer88 said:


> at 5449-12-7
> 
> 1 kg ap 0.5 water 1.2 phorsphor
> 140 degrees 5 hours with agitator
> You have to get 140 degrees at a lower temperature you get dirty oil



Brombeer88
Did you try this conversion? 
Is 140 degrees your self-experiment results that makes purer oil?
What was your yield of oil from 1kg of bmk powder?


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## btcboss2022

Brombeer88 said:


> at 5449-12-7
> 
> 1 kg ap 0.5 water 1.2 phorsphor
> 140 degrees 5 hours with agitator
> You have to get 140 degrees at a lower temperature you get dirty oil



Brombeer88I did that conversion in large scale more than 5 times and temp of the mixture don't goes higher than 120C even you put reactor temp at 170C should be refluxing products don't get more temp than this it happens many times in different reactions.


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## T0R

btcboss2022 said:


> I did that conversion in large scale more than 5 times and temp of the mixture don't goes higher than 120C even you put reactor temp at 170C should be refluxing products don't get more temp than this it happens many times in different reactions.



btcboss2022
Hello my friend,
Is it possible that you make a new final topic off your conversion 5449-12-7
becouse so many wrong information on 25 different topics

it is realy shit that we can not edit topics here on braking bad 
it makes no sense at al .
it could be so easy and clear if you could change the text after improved synthesis .
becouse off this it is almost impossible to find the right information the first time. 25 topics from 5449-12-7

I also dare to say that it is very dangerous not to be able to edit. in chemistry improvements are found every day.
Replacing heavy chemical products with less harmful ones seems to me to be progress.
but here on breaking bad the wrong harmfull information stay online for life
becouse the original post can not be edit after a new much better synthesis


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## Gale

Saul said:


> Hello my friend,
> Is it possible that you make a new final topic off your conversion 5449-12-7
> becouse so many wrong information on 25 different topics
> 
> it is realy shit that we can not edit topics here on braking bad
> it makes no sense at al .
> it could be so easy and clear if you could change the text after improved synthesis .
> becouse off this it is almost impossible to find the right information the first time. 25 topics from 5449-12-7
> 
> I also dare to say that it is very dangerous not to be able to edit. in chemistry improvements are found every day.
> Replacing heavy chemical products with less harmful ones seems to me to be progress.
> but here on breaking bad the wrong harmfull information stay online for life
> becouse the original post can not be edit after a new much better synthesis



SaulThere is a reason they lock your ability to edit.

Many other sites do the same thing, once you post, it becomes property of the forum lol useful when people delete info


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## Brombeer88

ChingShih said:


> Did you try this conversion?
> Is 140 degrees your self-experiment results that makes purer oil?
> What was your yield of oil from 1kg of bmk powder?



ChingShihgood morning I did 5449 myself we use 1000 liter boiler with agitator do 250 kg ap 125 lt water 300 phorsphor acid
5 hours cooking at 140 degrees
175 p2p comes out then further on leucart reaction and we get 130 lt a oil from it so 52 liters a oil per 100 kg


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## Brombeer88

Brombeer88 said:


> good morning I did 5449 myself we use 1000 liter boiler with agitator do 250 kg ap 125 lt water 300 phorsphor acid
> 5 hours cooking at 140 degrees
> 175 p2p comes out then further on leucart reaction and we get 130 lt a oil from it so 52 liters a oil per 100 kg



Brombeer88you can come to the Netherlands and I'll show you


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## T0R

Brombeer88 said:


> you can come to the Netherlands and I'll show you



Brombeer88I am willing to make a donation for a step by step explanation for this 5449-12-7 inclusive which products you use and which hardware glass you use 
for small scale let's say 1kg bmk

I ask this becouse I have to order all products needed to become A-oil


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## ChingShih

Saul said:


> I am willing to make a donation for a step by step explanation for this 5449-12-7 inclusive which products you use and which hardware glass you use
> for small scale let's say 1kg bmk
> 
> I ask this becouse I have to order all products needed to become A-oil



Saul
Take 5 Liter or 10 Liter Flask 

Step 1. Put 1kg bmk powder in flask, add in 0.5 Liter boiling water, start stirring the mixture, after dissolving, add 1.2 Liter Phosphoric acid 85%
Step 2. Bring this mixture to 140 degrees celsius, then boil for 5 hours with stirring
Step 3. After 5 hours of boiling stop the stirrer and heating and let the oil separate from mixture
Step 4. Decant the oil that is separated from reaction mixture and use it directly to further reductive amination methods to obtain A oil


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## ChingShih

Brombeer88 said:


> good morning I did 5449 myself we use 1000 liter boiler with agitator do 250 kg ap 125 lt water 300 phorsphor acid
> 5 hours cooking at 140 degrees
> 175 p2p comes out then further on leucart reaction and we get 130 lt a oil from it so 52 liters a oil per 100 kg



Brombeer88
Thank you for this answer, I sent you PM


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## btcboss2022

Brombeer88 said:


> you can come to the Netherlands and I'll show you



Brombeer88I trust you of course but I only can ask about my experience I will make pics about temp in the next batch, I put the temp reactor to 200C and the mixture don't get higher than 120C
Thanks.


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## btcboss2022

This pic was from one of the past batches done with 20kg of powder during 3 hours at 120C.
The 14 liters "dirty" oil were purified and I obtained the 80% of pure and clean P2P.
I will upload the details of the next batch.


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## ChingShih

btcboss2022 said:


> View attachment 5759
> 
> This pic was from one of the past batches done with 20kg of powder during 3 hours at 120C.
> The 14 liters "dirty" oil were purified and I obtained the 80% of pure and clean P2P.
> I will upload the details of the next batch.



btcboss2022
Thanks for picture, the ''dirty'' oil is the middle layer - that ''black - brown layer'' of oil? 
And what is the first and last layer? Why is the oil on the middle and not in the upper or downer layer?
I thought with this conversion only two layers form?
From 14 liters of dirty oil, you obtained like 11.2 liters of pure and clean P2P right?
What was your method of cleaning? Which type of destillation?


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## btcboss2022

ChingShih said:


> Thanks for picture, the ''dirty'' oil is the middle layer - that ''black - brown layer'' of oil?
> And what is the first and last layer? Why is the oil on the middle and not in the upper or downer layer?
> I thought with this conversion only two layers form?
> From 14 liters of dirty oil, you obtained like 11.2 liters of pure and clean P2P right?
> What was your method of cleaning? Which type of destillation?



ChingShihMiddle layer? There are only 2 layers and the oil is the top one.
Yes around 11 liters:
- Steam distillation.
- Separate oil from water layer.
- Extract water phase with DCM.
- Dry with sodium sulfate and filter it.
- Evaporate DCM.


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## ChingShih

btcboss2022 said:


> Middle layer? There are only 2 layers and the oil is the top one.
> Yes around 11 liters:
> - Steam distillation.
> - Separate oil from water layer.
> - Extract water phase with DCM.
> - Dry with sodium sulfate and filter it.
> - Evaporate DCM.



btcboss2022
In your picture above, there seems to be 3 layers, first one yellow transparent, then in the middle dark layer and then on the bottom also yellow layer
Or am I not looking at it properly?

So normal steal distillation can be used for p2p? It will boil over with water?


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## btcboss2022

ChingShih said:


> In your picture above, there seems to be 3 layers, first one yellow transparent, then in the middle dark layer and then on the bottom also yellow layer
> Or am I not looking at it properly?
> 
> So normal steal distillation can be used for p2p? It will boil over with water?



ChingShihTheres not a yellow transparent layer is the colour of the bath fluid in the jacketed reactor.
Normal steaming can be used for P2P boiling with water.


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## ChingShih

btcboss2022 said:


> Theres not a yellow transparent layer is the colour of the bath fluid in the jacketed reactor.
> Normal steaming can be used for P2P boiling with water.



btcboss2022
Thanks for all the answers


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## T0R

btcboss2022 said:


> Theres not a yellow transparent layer is the colour of the bath fluid in the jacketed reactor.
> Normal steaming can be used for P2P boiling with water.



btcboss2022
I also dont understand this picture ? there are 3 layers what is that black layer ?


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## T0R

so just to be clear.
after 5 hours of cooking, let everything cool down.
then you take the top layer and keep it separate.
what's the next thing you do with the top layer?
And what do you do with the bottom layer?

I want to become A-oil


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## T0R

Brombeer88 said:


> at 5449-12-7
> 
> 1 kg ap 0.5 water 1.2 phorsphor
> 140 degrees 5 hours with agitator
> You have to get 140 degrees at a lower temperature you get dirty oil



Brombeer88this is making more sence ! 
phosphoric acid boiling point is 158°c so you can get with no problem 145°c ( you have it right )
Formic acid 83% boiling point 100,8 °c ( not possible to get more than 110°c )
Hydrochloric acid 30% boiling point 90 °c ( useless ! ! )
Hydrochloric acid 37% boiling point 50 °c ( useless ! ! )
Sulfuric acid 96% boiling point 337 °c

next time you laugh at someone think twice .
you know who you are ( not at brombeer )


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## btcboss2022

Saul said:


> I also dont understand this picture ? there are 3 layers what is that black layer ?



Saul2 layers the black one is the oil.


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## btcboss2022

Saul said:


> so just to be clear.
> after 5 hours of cooking, let everything cool down.
> then you take the top layer and keep it separate.
> what's the next thing you do with the top layer?
> And what do you do with the bottom layer?
> 
> I want to become A-oil



SaulTop layer could be purified or not depend what you want to do with it for A oil possibly not interesting to purify it.
Bottom layer is discarded but you can extract it.


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## ChingShih

btcboss2022 said:


> Top layer could be purified or not depend what you want to do with it for A oil possibly not interesting to purify it.
> Bottom layer is discarded but you can extract it.



btcboss2022
But wouldn't dirty oil reduce the yield on a reductive amination of p2p to amine? 
Wouldn't be better to purify and then make leuckart of that pure p2p, so less impurities comes in final product...
But the user broomber88 is having quite good yield from everything as he wrote


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## btcboss2022

btcboss2022 said:


> I did that conversion in large scale more than 5 times and temp of the mixture don't goes higher than 120C even you put reactor temp at 170C should be refluxing products don't get more temp than this it happens many times in different reactions.



btcboss2022I uploaded some videos about process with phosphoric and as you can see mixture temp don't get higher even I put the reactor temp very high.
After around 3 hours you will see the oil mixed in the mixture. I got 14 liters from 20kg of powder.
When stop stirring layers get separated, aqueous layer discarted and I add water to wash the oil from acid.
Water layer discarded again and this "dirty" oil could be used in other processes.
Yield from "dirty" oil in meth oil process from example:
From 966gr of B oil I got 800gr of meth oil.









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## ChingShih

btcboss2022 said:


> I uploaded some videos about process with phosphoric and as you can see mixture temp don't get higher even I put the reactor temp very high.
> After around 3 hours you will see the oil mixed in the mixture. I got 14 liters from 20kg of powder.
> When stop stirring layers get separated, aqueous layer discarted and I add water to wash the oil from acid.
> Water layer discarded again and this "dirty" oil could be used in other processes.
> Yield from "dirty" oil in meth oil process from example:
> From 966gr of B oil I got 800gr of meth oil.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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btcboss2022
Thanks for the update, it helps a lot for us others to learn
@btcboss2022 please if you can reply to my question for you in the Nabh4/Cucl2 P2NP thread


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## btcboss2022

ChingShih said:


> Thanks for the update, it helps a lot for us others to learn
> @btcboss2022 please if you can reply to my question for you in the Nabh4/Cucl2 P2NP thread



ChingShihWhat question do you mean? I don't see it.
Thanks.


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## ChingShih

btcboss2022 said:


> What question do you mean? I don't see it.
> Thanks.



btcboss2022
Please look at the last page (6.page) of thread: One-pot synthesis of amphetamine from P2NP with NaBH4/CuCl2 (1kg scale)
On 12th of July I posted few questions for you @btcboss2022 and for @William Dampier because you two have experiences with this reaction
When you have time please answer to those questions as it would help me very much


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## Wizzkid

btcboss2022 said:


> Hello again,
> 
> Ok I tested with phosphoric acid and is a cheaper synth because less product must be used and possibly shorter too:
> 
> 
> BMK powder(CAS 5449-12-7)1Kg: H2O 0,5 liter: Phosphoric acid 85% 1,2 liters
> 
> Better dissolve the powder stirring in the hot H2O and later add Phosphoric
> 
> 120C reflux at least 3 hours( I did it 5 hours and no difference with final result)
> 
> With 20kg of powder I obtained 13 liters of "dirty" oil that must be purified or not depend the final use.
> 
> The aquos phase could be extracted with DCM but I did it and not enough product to this long job but each one can decide.
> 
> ;-)



btcboss2022Could 75% phosphoric be used at the same ratios or would this need 85% ? Just easier to get hold of currently


----------



## G.Patton

Wizzkid said:


> Could 75% phosphoric be used at the same ratios or would this need 85% ? Just easier to get hold of currently



WizzkidYes, you can. But you have to take more acid. 1.2L of 85% = 1.36L of 75%


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## T0R

G.Patton said:


> Yes, you can. But you have to take more acid. 1.2L of 85% = 1.36L of 75%



G.Patton
dear mr Patton,
is it possible to transfer phosphoric acid 75% strong to 85% strong?
becouse 75% is verry easy to get and cheep to


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## btcboss2022

Not necessary you only need to add 10% more of product than 85%



Saul said:


> dear mr Patton,
> is it possible to transfer phosphoric acid 75% strong to 85% strong?
> becouse 75% is verry easy to get and cheep to



Saul


----------



## T0R

btcboss2022 said:


> Not necessary you only need to add 10% more of product than 85%



btcboss2022
thx you


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## T0R

Today I finally give it a try


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## Wizzkid

after steam cleaning the A oil the oil has become more acidic. I’ve put in caustic again but it’s gone dirty again (not as much as before but noticeably more than it was). Is there a better way to correct this ? Should I give the water a higher ph before distilling or any other tips _?_


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## btcboss2022

Hello again,

After having some problems with the temp of the phosphoric route I decided to make small scale to test the traditional synth for BMK glycidate with HCL.

BMK 5449:H2O:HCL(37%) 1:1:3 

- Solve the powder in hot water
- Add the HCL and reflux 5 hours with stirring(you can stop stirring at 2 hours for example and if it's still powder undissolved in the bottom you can add more water)
- Separate the 2 layers, wash with water the oily layer and separate it.
- Add DCM to the water layer and separate it.
- Add the separated DCM to the oily layer keep it before.
- Add anhydrous sodium sulfate to the mixture, stir and filter it.
- Evaporate the DCM.
- Now you have clean B-oil!


----------



## JJRLL

Temperature control is also important. Keep stirring as well. The reactor must not be contaminated by other products


----------



## Amp master

btcboss2022 said:


> I had success with 20320-59-6 liquid form but not with 5449-12-7 powder yet but I will get it for sure ;-) making some tests



btcboss2022I am other way around mate success with 5449-12-7 and no success whatsoever with 20320-59-6 liquid


----------



## ChingShih

btcboss2022 said:


> Hello again,
> 
> After having some problems with the temp of the phosphoric route I decided to make small scale to test the traditional synth for BMK glycidate with HCL.
> 
> BMK 5449:H2O:HCL(37%) 1:1:3
> 
> - Solve the powder in hot water
> - Add the HCL and reflux 5 hours with stirring(you can stop stirring at 2 hours for example and if it's still powder undissolved in the bottom you can add more water)
> - Separate the 2 layers, wash with water the oily layer and separate it.
> - Add DCM to the water layer and separate it.
> - Add the separated DCM to the oily layer keep it before.
> - Add anhydrous sodium sulfate to the mixture, stir and filter it.
> - Evaporate the DCM.
> - Now you have clean B-oil!



btcboss2022
What was the yield? Was the yield higher from Phosphoric Acid or HCL?
And what was the reflux temperature? Also 150-160C or only 120 degrees celsius?


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## btcboss2022

ChingShih said:


> What was the yield? Was the yield higher from Phosphoric Acid or HCL?
> And what was the reflux temperature? Also 150-160C or only 120 degrees celsius?



ChingShihYield is more or less the same like with phosphoric about temp is 80-90C.


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## T0R

my next try will be with propionic acid 99,5% boiling point 141°c and verry cheep and not on a watch list.
it is 3 times cheeper than Phosphoric acid 75%


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## pantona123

btcboss2022 said:


> Yield is more or less the same like with phosphoric about temp is 80-90C.



btcboss2022Dear btc Boss thank you very much for sharing your experience, can you tell me step for step how you make from the b-oil clear amphetamin base ?


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## pantona123

And what are the alternatives for dcm?


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## btcboss2022

pantona123 said:


> Dear btc Boss thank you very much for sharing your experience, can you tell me step for step how you make from the b-oil clear amphetamin base ?



pantona123


http://bbzzzsvqcrqtki6umym6itiixfhni37ybtt7mkbjyxn2pgllzxf2qgyd.onion/threads/1-phenyl-2-propanone-p2p-leuckart-amination-to-amphetamine-and-methamphetamine-smale-scale.47/


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## btcboss2022

pantona123 said:


> And what are the alternatives for dcm?



pantona123Ether


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## T0R

btcboss2022 said:


> Ether



btcboss2022tolueen


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## pantona123

btcboss2022 said:


> http://bbzzzsvqcrqtki6umym6itiixfhni37ybtt7mkbjyxn2pgllzxf2qgyd.onion/threads/1-phenyl-2-propanone-p2p-leuckart-amination-to-amphetamine-and-methamphetamine-smale-scale.47/



btcboss2022Thank you, but in the end of this synthesis the oil is yellow not clear/white 
I know both of them and know both are made from bmk/apaan but can't figure out when it will get clear/white


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## T0R

pantona123 said:


> Thank you, but in the end of this synthesis the oil is yellow not clear/white
> I know both of them and know both are made from bmk/apaan but can't figure out when it will get clear/white



pantona123
this is not possible anymore with the new BMK cas numbers


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## btcboss2022

pantona123 said:


> Thank you, but in the end of this synthesis the oil is yellow not clear/white
> I know both of them and know both are made from bmk/apaan but can't figure out when it will get clear/white



pantona123

White bmk oil?I never heard about it and never see it or have. Sorry.


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## ChingShih

cas 5449-12-7 has been tested on following procedure:
500g water, 500g bmk and 700ml phosphoric acid 75%

after 4 hours of boiling i got back yellow oil on top
i let it cool down and next day separated it and added boiling water to it 2 times to wash it
after the washing the oil became light yellow milky color
and the yield was very bad (40% - 200ml from 500g 5449)
at first i tried to add only 250ml water and 500g bmk powder but the bmk didn't dissolve and started to burn a bit so i added another 250ml water
and then the bmk finally dissolved

why is the oil now milk color? why is it not light yellow color like it was when it was converted?
and why was the yield so small? because of too much water added? 
please guys share your experiences what it might be


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## T0R

ChingShih said:


> cas 5449-12-7 has been tested on following procedure:
> 500g water, 500g bmk and 700ml phosphoric acid 75%
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> at first i tried to add only 250ml water and 500g bmk powder but the bmk didn't dissolve and started to burn a bit so i added another 250ml water
> and then the bmk finally dissolved
> 
> why is the oil now milk color? why is it not light yellow color like it was when it was converted?
> and why was the yield so small? because of too much water added?
> please guys share your experiences what it might be



ChingShih
what is the ph off your milk ? 

if you follow my instructions step by step you had no milk


http://bbzzzsvqcrqtki6umym6itiixfhni37ybtt7mkbjyxn2pgllzxf2qgyd.onion/threads/p2p-synthesis-from-bmk-glycidate-ethers.4307/post-13418


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
this is the preparation of P2P Phenylacetone CAS 103-79-7 made use of BMK Glycidic Acid ( sodium salt ) CAS 5449-12-7 with main ingredient sulfonic acid strength is 75% CAS 7664-38-2
-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
we are going to prepare 1 kg of BMK
take a 5 liter double neck flask
add 500ml boiling water . start with the mixer.
now very slowly add 1kg of BMK salt. ( 30 minutes )
then add 1 liter of sulfonic acid. 
and heat the contents of the flask to max temperature. plus minus 130°c. use a powerful mixer.
now connect the reflux
Let it boil in reflux for 4 hours.
take the top layer and pour it into a measuring cup.
let the bottom layer cool and save for next time. ( we have no chemical waste for this preparation method )

now boil 1 liter of water and add it to the measuring cup. use a hand mixer to mix everything.
After mixing for a few minutes, let the measuring cup cool to room temperature.
remove the top white layer (this is water and waste that we don't need)
the bottom layer is P2P purified and ready to use.

ps: in this preparation we don't have to worry about water remaining in our P2P because water weighs less than P2P

ps2: if you keep these ratios, the P2P will have a ph value of 4 .
if you use more sulfonic acid the ph value will drop to 1. Therefore it is not necessary to use too much sulfonic acid.


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## ChingShih

Saul said:


> what is the ph off your milk ?
> 
> if you follow my instructions step by step you had no milk
> 
> 
> http://bbzzzsvqcrqtki6umym6itiixfhni37ybtt7mkbjyxn2pgllzxf2qgyd.onion/threads/p2p-synthesis-from-bmk-glycidate-ethers.4307/post-13418
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> this is the preparation of P2P Phenylacetone CAS 103-79-7 made use of BMK Glycidic Acid ( sodium salt ) CAS 5449-12-7 with main ingredient sulfonic acid strength is 75% CAS 7664-38-2
> -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
> we are going to prepare 1 kg of BMK
> take a 5 liter double neck flask
> add 500ml boiling water . start with the mixer.
> now very slowly add 1kg of BMK salt. ( 30 minutes )
> then add 1 liter of sulfonic acid.
> and heat the contents of the flask to max temperature. plus minus 130°c. use a powerful mixer.
> now connect the reflux
> Let it boil in reflux for 4 hours.
> take the top layer and pour it into a measuring cup.
> let the bottom layer cool and save for next time. ( we have no chemical waste for this preparation method )
> 
> now boil 1 liter of water and add it to the measuring cup. use a hand mixer to mix everything.
> After mixing for a few minutes, let the measuring cup cool to room temperature.
> remove the top white layer (this is water and waste that we don't need)
> the bottom layer is P2P purified and ready to use.
> 
> ps: in this preparation we don't have to worry about water remaining in our P2P because water weighs less than P2P
> 
> ps2: if you keep these ratios, the P2P will have a ph value of 4 .
> if you use more sulfonic acid the ph value will drop to 1. Therefore it is not necessary to use too much sulfonic acid.



Saul
I have to measure the ph of my milk
Maybe i added to much water, but the problem is the 250ml water at the start wasn't enough to dissolve 500g of bmk powder 
So i then added again 250ml of water, and then everything dissolved smoothly, after that when bmk dissolved in water 
i added 720ml of phosphoric acid 75% to the flask, and proceed to boil reflux for 4 hours
after 1 hour there was already the oil on top, but i still made the reflux for 4 hours 
and after it was finished, transparent-yellow oil was on top
But after washing it with water it became this milk color
i don't know why, and the yield is only 40% which is very bad i know this
Next time I will make experiment with: 300ml water, 500g powder and 1L of phosphoric acid 75%

what is your yield @Saul from 5449? 60-70% after washing with boiling water?


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## T0R

ChingShih said:


> But after washing it with water it became this milk color



ChingShih
do you boil 2 liters off water for washing ?

when you add the boiling water to the P2P it must be cool down completely before separate
I wait 6 hours for doing this


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## ChingShih

Saul said:


> do you boil 2 liters off water for washing ?
> 
> when you add the boiling water to the P2P it must be cool down completely before separate
> I wait 6 hours for doing this



Saul
only one experiment was done which i posted here
thanks for all the tips have to try it again


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## T0R

I fail for the 7th time the last step off this syntheses 
Fucking HCl fuck that shit !
al syntheses with HCl are shit 
don't get it that there are still experts that promote HCl


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## UWe9o12jkied91d

Ah yes, Big Chlorine fools another, when will they stop getting away with it??


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## T0R

btcboss2022 said:


> I did that conversion in large scale more than 5 times and temp of the mixture don't goes higher than 120C even you put reactor temp at 170C should be refluxing products don't get more temp than this it happens many times in different reactions.



btcboss2022
Hello my friend,
Is it possible that you make a new final topic off your conversion 5449-12-7
becouse so many wrong information on 25 different topics

it is realy shit that we can not edit topics here on braking bad 
it makes no sense at al .
it could be so easy and clear if you could change the text after improved synthesis .
becouse off this it is almost impossible to find the right information the first time. 25 topics from 5449-12-7

I also dare to say that it is very dangerous not to be able to edit. in chemistry improvements are found every day.
Replacing heavy chemical products with less harmful ones seems to me to be progress.
but here on breaking bad the wrong harmfull information stay online for life
becouse the original post can not be edit after a new much better synthesis


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## Gale

Saul said:


> Hello my friend,
> Is it possible that you make a new final topic off your conversion 5449-12-7
> becouse so many wrong information on 25 different topics
> 
> it is realy shit that we can not edit topics here on braking bad
> it makes no sense at al .
> it could be so easy and clear if you could change the text after improved synthesis .
> becouse off this it is almost impossible to find the right information the first time. 25 topics from 5449-12-7
> 
> I also dare to say that it is very dangerous not to be able to edit. in chemistry improvements are found every day.
> Replacing heavy chemical products with less harmful ones seems to me to be progress.
> but here on breaking bad the wrong harmfull information stay online for life
> becouse the original post can not be edit after a new much better synthesis



SaulThere is a reason they lock your ability to edit.

Many other sites do the same thing, once you post, it becomes property of the forum lol useful when people delete info


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## ChingShih

UWe9o12jkied91d said:


> Ah yes, Big Chlorine fools another, when will they stop getting away with it??



UWe9o12jkied91d
To whom did you say this? And what does your comment mean? I don't understand please explain


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## UWe9o12jkied91d

ChingShih said:


> To whom did you say this? And what does your comment mean? I don't understand please explain



ChingShihIt's just a joke, sorry moderators if it's out of place. I was just making abit of fun of Saul who thinks people encourage the use of HCl for some nefarious or conspiratory reasons.


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## ChingShih

what is the problem of yields with 5449 coming out so low?
the most i get is 47.5% yield with phosphoric acid 75% or 35% with hcl 36%
does phosphoric acid have to be 85% to achieve yield in range from 60-70%?
or why does the ratio: 1kg bmk : 1.5L phosphoric acid : 0.5L water give out only 47.5% yield at the most?
did anyone of you have such experience?
could the bmk powder be of low quality or have something mixed in to not give so much yield out?

people with experience help @btcboss2022 @G.Patton @sponsor


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## btcboss2022

ChingShih said:


> what is the problem of yields with 5449 coming out so low?
> the most i get is 47.5% yield with phosphoric acid 75% or 35% with hcl 36%
> does phosphoric acid have to be 85% to achieve yield in range from 60-70%?
> or why does the ratio: 1kg bmk : 1.5L phosphoric acid : 0.5L water give out only 47.5% yield at the most?
> did anyone of you have such experience?
> could the bmk powder be of low quality or have something mixed in to not give so much yield out?
> 
> people with experience help @btcboss2022 @G.Patton @sponsor



ChingShihObviously we cant know if your 5449 is mixed or if Its good quality or not ;-)
In my case I always used phosphoric at 85% 1:1,2:0,5 powder, acid, water
You can try to make the process without H2O, Heat the acid around 60C and add the powder portionwise while stirring, once all added reflux 5 hours at 140C with slow stir.


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## G.Patton

ChingShih said:


> what is the problem of yields with 5449 coming out so low?
> the most i get is 47.5% yield with phosphoric acid 75% or 35% with hcl 36%
> does phosphoric acid have to be 85% to achieve yield in range from 60-70%?
> or why does the ratio: 1kg bmk : 1.5L phosphoric acid : 0.5L water give out only 47.5% yield at the most?
> did anyone of you have such experience?
> could the bmk powder be of low quality or have something mixed in to not give so much yield out?
> 
> people with experience help @btcboss2022 @G.Patton @sponsor



ChingShihAgree with @btcboss2022 . You have to check mp of you BMK glycidate at first. How did you calculate reaction yield?


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## ChingShih

@G.Patton and @btcboss2022 thanks both for answers, it is weird because supplier says it is 100% 5449
I did not try melting point of my bmk glycidate, I calculated reaction yield on the proportion if from 200g of powder comes out 90ml it means 45% yield
but it is probably wrong calculation because i did not use moles of reactants 
could this powder be diethyl phenylacetyl malonate? and this is why such small yields? or was the diethyl phenylacetyl malonate only available in oily form?


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## btcboss2022

ChingShih said:


> @G.Patton and @btcboss2022 thanks both for answers, it is weird because supplier says it is 100% 5449
> I did not try melting point of my bmk glycidate, I calculated reaction yield on the proportion if from 200g of powder comes out 90ml it means 45% yield
> but it is probably wrong calculation because i did not use moles of reactants
> could this powder be diethyl phenylacetyl malonate? and this is why such small yields? or was the diethyl phenylacetyl malonate only available in oily form?



ChingShih20320 has powder form too but I dont think that method works for It are different productos.


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## G.Patton

ChingShih said:


> @G.Patton and @btcboss2022 thanks both for answers, it is weird because supplier says it is 100% 5449
> I did not try melting point of my bmk glycidate, I calculated reaction yield on the proportion if from 200g of powder comes out 90ml it means 45% yield
> but it is probably wrong calculation because i did not use moles of reactants
> could this powder be diethyl phenylacetyl malonate? and this is why such small yields? or was the diethyl phenylacetyl malonate only available in oily form?



ChingShihRead this manual to count the yield correctly. *Moles, grams, liters and chemical calculations*
You had to get 132.7 ml of P2P from 200g of 5449-12-7.* You've got 67.8% yield.* Do you feel difference with your 45%?



> >could this powder be diethyl phenylacetyl malonate?


You can check melting point of your precursor 5449-12-7. If the melting point will be different more than ~5 deg C, your product is polluted. I don't thinks that problem is there.


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## ChingShih

@G.Patton thanks again for answers but i think you calculated it wrong, the best yield i got is 95ml yellow oil (p2p) from 200g powder, so how much yield is this? not 67.8% i think.... it is way less or? i just dont understand how to calculate this yield and i've read that moles,grams, liters and chemical calculations thread you posted here


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## sankharaKokosDreams

ChingShih said:


> @G.Patton thanks again for answers but i think you calculated it wrong, the best yield i got is 95ml yellow oil (p2p) from 200g powder, so how much yield is this? not 67.8% i think.... it is way less or? i just dont understand how to calculate this yield and i've read that moles,grams, liters and chemical calculations thread you posted here



ChingShihthis is a normal amount p2p 
the next stage is more important
and the last stage is the biggest secret off the forum


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## G.Patton

ChingShih said:


> @G.Patton thanks again for answers but i think you calculated it wrong, the best yield i got is 95ml yellow oil (p2p) from 200g powder, so how much yield is this? not 67.8% i think.... it is way less or? i just dont understand how to calculate this yield and i've read that moles,grams, liters and chemical calculations thread you posted here



ChingShihRead my post about calculation again, there is paragraph *How to calculate yield.* If you don't understand, ask there.
>the best yield i got is 95ml yellow oil (p2p) from 200g powder, so how much yield is this? not 67.8% i think
you think wrong.

200 g Of glycidate is ~1 mole (0.999167479). According to reaction balance, you have to get 1 mole of P2P. 0.9991674 mole of P2P is =0.999167x134.18g/mole=134.07 g. Volume of 134.07g P2P is 134.068g÷1.01g/ml=132.74 ml. You've got 95 ml. The yield is = (90 ml*100)/132.74 ml = *67.8%.*


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## ChingShih

@G.Patton my sincere apologies and thank you for clarification of calculation, 67.8% is very very good yield for this conversion or what do you think?


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## G.Patton

ChingShih said:


> @G.Patton my sincere apologies and thank you for clarification of calculation, 67.8% is very very good yield for this conversion or what do you think?



ChingShihNot very good, but not so bad, actually. Almost 70%.


----------

