How Long Does It Takes to Get 10 kg of Amphetamine Sulfate?

G.Patton

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This article is a continuation of the previous article about 100 g amphetamine synthesis timings. We are going to talk about production timings for 10 kg synthesis approaches.​
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Approaches for Producing Amphetamine Sulfate​

To produce amphetamine sulfate in large manufacturing scale, raw materials have to be purchased. These includes are the same chemicals that are used to small scale batches. The exact ingredients also vary depending on a synthesis approach. There are two the most popular amphetamine synthesis approaches:
1. P2NP reduction by aluminum amalgam
2. P2NP reduction by NaBH4.

Once the ingredients have been acquired, they have to be prepared into a usable form. This can include purifying, distilling, or otherwise manipulating the ingredients to synthesize the desired quality reagent. P2NP can be recrystallized and dried by following manual for about 48 h in a large scale. It takes so much time by reason that you need about 15 kg of P2NP. Other reagents can be prepared during P2NP drying procedure after recrystallization. The next step is to combine the ingredients in the correct proportions.​

P2NP Reduction Via Aluminum Amalgam Synthesis Way​

For a large scale synthesis, it isn't recommended to use this way by reason that the most useful synthesis scale for this method is ~50 g per one reaction flask. You will need about 300 batches in order to produce ~10 kg amphetamine sulphate by this way.
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P2NP Reduction Via NaBH4​

Reaction is started from 15 kg P2NP is dissolved in IPA in 100 L batch reactor. NaBH4 decent amount is slowly added for approximately 24 h. CuCl2 solution addition and heating at 80 °C takes ~1.5 h. Cuprum sediment filtration, alkalization and layer separation need about 3 h and addition ~1 h for amphetamine freebase extraction from sludge. Acidification and filtration procedure take approximately ~4 h.​
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Total shortest reaction batch takes approximately ~ 33.5 h.

Vacuum drying procedure takes about 48 h in case of using several vacuum desiccators. It is important to highlight that you can start next synthesis batch during this drying exposure in a vacuum desiccator until constant dry mass of amphetamine sulphate powder.​

Time Required to Produce 100 g of Amphetamine Sulfate​

Synthesis should be done by two chemists in order to carry out it properly. Process can be separated for three full working days. The biggest synthesis time parts are a passive vacuum drying, which isn't takes chemist presence, and NaBH4 addition, which takes constant attention of a chemist. Required time to produce 10 kg of amphetamine sulfate depends on chemists skill levels. For a novice, the process may take significantly longer due to the complexity of the process and the need for precise measurements. It is strongly recommended to get an experience with a small scale synthesis batch. Moreover, if the chemicals don't have a good quality, purity or if the process is done incorrectly, the time required to produce amphetamine sulphate may be significantly longer.​
 

Gerald Cotten

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Great post @G.Patton ! It is super useful to learn more about the amphetamine sulfate production for large quantities.

I am still surprised that the P2NP is mixed with the IPA/DH2O before the NaBH4 is added.

It is written that the reaction is executed in a 100 l batch reactor. Logically, the reaction mass is therefore lower than 100 liters.
So I assume that the quantities of the chemicals used differ from those in the post One-pot amphetamine synthesis from P2NP with NaBH4/CuCl2 (1kg scale).

Since this post focuses on the temporal production processes, I wonder if another post is planned.
Is it currently planned to publish a post in which this process is explained to the precisely to understand how the quantities of the chemicals should be planned? A step by step instructions would also be very useful to understand more about the quantities and also the temperature monitoring etc.

That would help enormously to carry out this process.
 

Gordon Ramsay

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@G.Patton This can be groundbreaking for our lab as we work with exactly those chemicals already and have build our supply chain around this route, are there more information available on this route?

If the yield & timeframe described is realistic we think this route can prouce amphetamines much faster than the One-pot amphetamine synthesis from P2NP with NaBH4/CuCl2 (1kg scale)

While there are forum members that have executed the route with loads of 1kg - 2kg we are working with 500g of P2NP each load, within a 20L reactor. With this technique we can achieve completing two loads á 500g within 10h (including preperation and cleaning of equipment).

Assuming this new route can achieve handling 15kg of P2NP (Theory: 15kg of P2NP equals 13.275L of freebase, equals 9.558kg of Sulphate) within 33.5h this means that this route will produce 1L of freebase in 22.33% of the time we are taking with the other route and 500g loads, in other words you can say this route is 4.47 times faster than the route for the smaller scale.
If one would be able to load 2kg of P2NP at once using the One-pot amphetamine synthesis from P2NP with NaBH4/CuCl2 (1kg scale) within 6 hours (completion of synthesis), which is now just an estimation, the above described route would still just take 74.44% of the time needed via the One-pot amphetamine synthesis from P2NP with NaBH4/CuCl2 (1kg scale).

To visualize this: Within 20 days work (team of multiple people) the above meantioned route can produce 79.25 of freebase (64.47kg of Sulphate) with one 100L reactor whereas a 20L reactor that's being loaded twice a day (500g loads) would only produce 17.7L of freebase (14.4kf of Sulphate) in the same time.
(I am calculating this for a 20L reactor because this is what I am using and also around the scale many others on the forum are using)


Again, I think this is a ground breaking route and it can help bringing the amphetamine manufacturers from this forum to new heights just for the economical benefits this route brings!

Anyway, there are some missing information for chemist noobs like me :D

Is there info on the quantity of IPA?
Also, contrary to the other route there will be no DH2O used here?

Will the ratio of P2NP:NaBH4 be the same from the One pot synthesis via P2NP, NaBH4, CuCL2? This ratio would be 1:1.739 kg

Will the ratio be that same? 0.105kg of CuCL2 dissolved in XX liter of DH2O for every kilo of P2NP?

Will this step be done through the addition of a 25% NaOH solution?
If yes, what is the ideal quantity to add?

We assume this will be done with an appropriate amount of IPA, same as the other route.
What is the recommended amount?

This part is clear, obviously

Thanks in advance for providing this route!

Greets from hell,

Gordon
 

G.Patton

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I can't answer you for sure. You have to adjust this synthesis on the spot. I think not less than 50 L of IPA/Water mixture. And yes, it's worth to use distilled water but you can use filtered tap water also.
Yes and for other reagents as well.

I think about 20L
 
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Gordon Ramsay

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Too bad :D
Okay understood.

Ok

When we scale the reagents in the same proportions as for the 1kg scale, I wonder about the recommended reactor size of 100L

The list would be:

P2NP - 15kg
NaBH4 - 26.085Kg
CuCL2 - 1.575Kg
DH2O - 181.5L
IPA - 90L
NaOH - 30Kg

I think the reaction description was not for the reactor volume of 100L, what do you think?

If we would stick to the 1kg scale steps and ratio the IPA/Water solution would need to be 270L, if we would take the 50L volume you have recommended along with the 15kg P2NP, 26.085kg NaBH4 and later 1.575kg CuCL2 + 3L DH2O we would already be sitting at 95.66L volume in the reactor.

Is this on purpose? Are we supposed to load a 100L reactor with 95.66 liters of liquid?
I don't know how exothermic this will be but it leaves almost no room for the reaction mass to expand or even for some errors.

May I ask for the source of this post? I would like to read into it and see the original comments posted
 

G.Patton

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I already told you

I told approximate volume of solvent. I may be wrong and you may need less. As I said before: "I can't answer you for sure. You have to adjust this synthesis on the spot."

You are talking with the source of this post.
 

Gordon Ramsay

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Interesting, what do you think how heavy the foaming will be when adding NaBH4, could it be comparable to the regular route for a NaBH4/CuCL2 reduction of P2NP?
 

Gordon Ramsay

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Hmm then I think that a reaction to the above described conditions should rather take place in a 200L reactor instead of a 100L reactor, what would you think?
 

lalosalamanca84

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if we must put ( on 15 kg p2np ) NaBH4 26.085 kg this coast about 13.000 $ …how much coast 1 Liter Amphetamine freebase 🤯 🤔 p2np 15 kg = about 3000 $ 💸
 

Gordon Ramsay

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You are not correct :)

The price for P2NP can be between 80 - 250EUR depending on the quantity.
Also NaBH4 can be purchased for 50 - 125EUR easily in europe :)

The cost for a liter of freebase can be between 250 - 500 EUR if done right
 

lalosalamanca84

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yes understand I no expect strictly 10 kg… i only want make maximum possible on 100 L reactor ( if this be 2 liter freebase is ok,if can be 5-6 super ) only calculation for reactor 100 L i need 👍🏻
 

Gordon Ramsay

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You can use the link I have sent you and multiply it by 2.5 if you are skilled with this synthesis :) Means you'd be using 2.5Kg of p2np instead of 1kg and scale all other reagents in the same ratio.

It you lack propper cooling it would be recommended to load a maximum of 2kg of P2NP I guess as the reaction can expand quite heavy I think
 

OrgUnikum

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13.xxx liter of Amphetamine freebase will give over 17 kg of Amphetamine Sulfate (72% base, 28% acid w/w) not less then 10 kg.
That would be at 100% yield whats unrealistic. But with 70% yield you still have 12 kg Sulfate and I believe 70% should be in reach.
 

lalosalamanca84

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If

Where can find video with explanations step by step how to make 10 L free base Amphetamine in glass reactor 100 L … if somebody can help me… tnx 👍🏻
 

Gordon Ramsay

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As far as I know there is no video tutorial on this, I would love to see one
 
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lalosalamanca84

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i am ready to repayment this video 😂💵 to make shortcut for all my doubts…👍🏻
 

Gordon Ramsay

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I do not have a video and if I would, I would provide it for free of course :) I think anyone on the forum who would have the video would share it here, that's why this forum exists
 

the money

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If you can pay for the video why not contact the management and support them so they can make a video for you and all the forum but you know it would cost a lot to buy all the stuff so pay them so they can have all the material and so they can help you
 

lalosalamanca84

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please show me how and where to write …i want but i am relatively new and no can find exactly hwo can help me with tutorial ( recipe) video… if someone can make or already have i pay and put here to help to all members 💪🏻👍🏻
 

mile123

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Patton didn't choose this war, war choose him
 
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