Question D-Lysergic Acid Methyl Ester to LSA?

[kevin_smith_2]

Hello!
Can anybody explain how to process D-Lysergic Acid Methyl Ester to LSA?

 

[HerrHaber]

Most of us can explain what you asked for but you have absolutely no way of explaining why you would ever intend to, let alone asking out loud. The uselesness and extent of wasting such a precious material in order to obtain LSA is offensive and should not be asked for embarrasement reasons. You qualify for the stupidest question ever posted on this forum. I don't mean to be rude but your question is revolting in the sense of transforming big valuable diamonds into graphite (yes it is possible but why on earth would you?)

 

[kevin_smith_2]

Critique accepted.
The idea is to produce LSD from D-Lysergic Acid Methyl Ester, so we thought we should go first for LSA and then > LSD. Obviously wrong.

 

[HerrHaber]

LSA can't be transformed to LSD since ethylating agents will prefer other parts of the molecule than the carboxamide moiety and serious racemisation is bound to occur. Excue my angry statement, i just had a bad experience with someone prefering to ask then understand.

 

[kevin_smith_2]

Thank you for the information. We are newbies looking for information.
Can anybody give more information on how to process D-Lysergic Acid Methyl Ester into LSD?

 

[HerrHaber]

Now this is question is normal and glad to have been asked, the other one could have been interpreted as making fun of us. The modern approach is in a two step sequence involving a modern chiral carboxyl activator such as PyBop. By reacting it with diethylamine in the pressence of another tertiary amine as proton capturer (monomethyl-diethylamine for example)

 

[kevin_smith_2]

Apologies but we are not that good in this and we don’t want to lead you to any perplexity. But we are interested in the easiest way to produce LSD by starting with D-Lysergic Acid Methyl Ester. Once again sorry.

 

[HerrHaber]

It so seems that we have a plan in common but even though the preparation is well within my competence (thank's to the rapid development of peptide synthesis) I just had to abbandon my lab because my associate was not only dissrespectful but also posed a threat to the whole thing. I have the knowledge and academic experience but no longer the financial means. The synthesis is accomplishable during one single day more or less but considerring the preparation all equipment and regents must be in pure enough form and rotavap at least for that day since it saves a lot of product from decomposing.

 

[orgasmatron]

I guess the right question is, what is the best place to go once one has D-Lysergic Acid Methyl Ester? Would attempting to obtain LSD from it be as counterproductive as turning diamonds into graphite? Would the effort not payoff, economically, or is D-LAME itself superior in experience quality in a way that obtaining LSD from it would be senseless?
My research at this point has yielded less than reliable information on D-LAME in that it's not clear to me if intended use is as a final product (some talk about blotters laced with it ) and if this is the case, information available on doses, either threshold or desirable is not technically reliable and one will inevitably run into inconsistencies..
If, however, it's potential is best reached as a precursor, what would the best destination ( final product ) be? What are the synthetic pathways (either established or proposed) that should be considered?
How can we amount efforts together to obtain/confirm useful results?
Thank you brother

 

[HerrHaber]

The ester can be turned into the acid by a process that I wouldn’t stress myself to design and then via PyBOP as published. It clearly isn’t potent enough to consider the ester a good substance compared to LSD, this may be a prodrug to LSA that has a known low dosage in the sense that only part of it will be converted thus an unknown but presumably larger dose is required. There is a certain possibility of the acid being obtained in stiu (not isolated as monohydrate but generated in the reaction flask just before reacting with the diethylamine). This needs good planning and several trials on an analytical scale, which will give the information wether it works or not but yield isn’t correctly quantifiable. Instrumental analysts is best but TLC (thin layer chromatography) should do up to the point when 20-30 mg are available to sacrifice to confirm the product identity by at least a 1H nmr (proton) or LC/MS if a standard sample is available (reference LSD).