Ketamine Benzodiazepine tranquilizers Orange Discussion: Ketamine and Benzodiazepine tranquilizers

HEISENBERG

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Ketamine and Benzodiazepine tranquilizers

Ketamine is a dissociative anesthetic with unique properties that set it apart from other drugs. It’s used medically for anesthesia, but it’s also known for its use in treating depression, PTSD, and chronic pain, as well as for its recreational effects.

Ketamine primarily works by blocking N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptors in the brain. NMDA receptors are a type of glutamate receptor, which is crucial for excitatory neurotransmission (the process of neurons activating each other). By blocking NMDA receptors, ketamine reduces the usual glutamate activity, which alters the balance of excitatory and inhibitory signals in the brain. This disruption can result in the dissociative and anesthetic effects of ketamine, as well as its potential to "reset" abnormal patterns of brain activity found in conditions like depression.

Despite that, ketamine paradoxically increases overall glutamate release by acting on inhibitory interneurons. This increase in glutamate can enhance synaptic plasticity, which is thought to underlie its rapid antidepressant effects. Enhanced plasticity allows the brain to form new neural connections more readily, which may be crucial in "rewiring" the brain in a therapeutic context.

Ketamine’s increase in glutamate also leads to activation of another type of receptor, AMPA receptors. This activation is essential for the antidepressant effects of ketamine, as it is associated with the release of brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF), a protein that supports neuron growth and survival.


Benzodiazepines are a class of psychoactive drugs known for their sedative, anxiolytic (anxiety-reducing), muscle relaxant, and anticonvulsant properties. They are commonly prescribed to treat anxiety disorders, insomnia, seizures, muscle spasms, and alcohol withdrawal.

Benzodiazepines primarily exert their effects by enhancing the activity of gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA), the brain's main inhibitory neurotransmitter. GABA-A receptors are ligand-gated chloride channels located on neurons. When GABA binds to these receptors, the channel opens, allowing chloride ions to enter the neuron, which makes it more negatively charged and less likely to fire an action potential (neuron activation).

Benzodiazepines bind to a specific site on the GABA-A receptor, distinct from where GABA itself binds. This binding increases the affinity of the GABA-A receptor for GABA, meaning that GABA binds more effectively. This enhanced binding leads to a greater influx of chloride ions, resulting in increased inhibitory effects in the central nervous system (CNS).

Common examples of benzos:
  • Diazepam (Valium): Commonly prescribed for anxiety disorders, muscle spasms, seizures, and alcohol withdrawal symptoms. It has a relatively long half-life, which means it stays active in the body for a prolonged period.
  • Alprazolam (Xanax): Primarily used for treating anxiety and panic disorders. It has a relatively short onset of action and is effective for acute relief of anxiety symptoms.
  • Lorazepam (Ativan): Frequently prescribed for anxiety, insomnia, and to control acute seizures (including status epilepticus). It's also used preoperatively for sedation.
  • Clonazepam (Klonopin): Used to treat panic disorder and certain types of seizures. It has a longer half-life compared to alprazolam, making it effective for sustained management.
  • Midazolam (Versed): Primarily used for sedation before surgical procedures, as well as for inducing anesthesia and treating acute seizures. It has a very short half-life and rapid onset.
  • Temazepam (Restoril): Commonly prescribed as a short-term treatment for insomnia, particularly to help with sleep onset.
  • Oxazepam (Serax): Typically prescribed for anxiety and acute alcohol withdrawal. It is a short-to-intermediate-acting benzodiazepine.

Combining ketamine with benzos has complex effects on the brain, and this combination is used in various clinical scenarios, though it requires careful management due to potential interactions.
  1. Increased Sedation and Respiratory Depression: Both ketamine and benzodiazepines are CNS depressants. When used together, there is an increased risk of excessive sedation, leading to profound drowsiness, dizziness, and potentially dangerous respiratory depression. This combination is particularly risky in non-controlled environments or in individuals with pre-existing respiratory issues.
  2. Attenuation of Antidepressant Effects: Several studies suggest that benzodiazepines might reduce the efficacy of ketamine's antidepressant effects. This is thought to occur because benzodiazepines enhance GABAergic activity, which may counteract some of ketamine's mechanisms that involve glutamate and NMDA receptor modulation. As a result, patients taking benzodiazepines might experience less pronounced or shorter-lasting antidepressant benefits from ketamine treatments.
  3. Management of Anxiety and Seizures: On the positive side, benzodiazepines may help manage the anxiety or agitation that some patients experience with ketamine, particularly during or after trip. Additionally, since ketamine can lower the seizure threshold, benzodiazepines’ anticonvulsant properties might offer protective benefits against potential seizures, especially in high-risk users.
While the combination of ketamine and benzodiazepines show some possible positive effects in certain situations, it requires careful consideration of timing, dosing, and patient-specific factors to avoid increasing the risk of adverse effects. Current research does not support the safe recreational use of this combination outside of controlled clinical settings.

🟠 Considering the above, we recommend treating this combination with great caution.
 
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cocosquare

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Hello! I got to know about this site as recently my spouse has been frequenting it a lot; they just hit the titanium plate in their arm (from a previous injury) however they refuse to taken to a MD, unfortunately the pain due to nerve damage has been overwhelming so I was wondering if any of the medications listed below would be recommended for this situation:

Diazepam BP 5mg
Nitrazepam BP 5mg
Midazolam 7.5mg
Alprazolam 0.5mg & 2mg

Within the past 1 hour they have already consumed: 4mg Alprazolam, followed by 0.02gm of Ketamine S-isomer approximately 15 minutes later, along with 1000mg Paracetamol.

As of now it seems to have eased the pain a little with no major side effects thus far, but any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
 

dnBQByvHb8Zkawbjpx

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That is quite a lot for the whole day; for a single dose it's way too much. If I were you I'd monitor the spouse for the rest of the day as this is getting into dangerous territory.
Is that 20 mg? That sounds like way too little, unless delivered in IV and even then it's not a lot to have solid effects.

All substances that you mentioned are tranquilizers with effects of sedation, calming, sleep inducing etc. While they might have some effect against chronic pain you may want to look into opiates, especially slow-release pharma products instead.
 

cocosquare

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Hi there, thanks so much for your input.

Spouse said thank you for the response as well, they'd like to know which products in particular you suggest for opiates; would Tramadol do?
Current don't have any with us, and they usually don't take any other benzodiazepines except for the Xanax, but even then never as big a dose as yesterday's.

Yes, that was 20mg for the first dose of the ketamine; they ended up taking a total of 100mg throughout the night. What's a safe amount that'll be enough to take their mind off the pain?

Thank you again, we're most grateful for your fast response & advice.
 

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Benzodiazepines alone or even with ketamine are not the optimal choice for treating neurological pain.

Given the combination of substances your spouse has already consumed, it's important to proceed with caution. The medications you've listed are all central nervous system depressants, which can have additive effects when taken together, potentially leading to serious complications.

A high dose of Alprazolam that can lead to significant sedation, respiratory depression, and impaired coordination. Ketamine dose is relatively low but can still cause dissociation and interact with other drugs. The standard prescribed dose of the Xanax ranges from 0.25 mg to 0.5 mg taken three times daily. Exceeding this can increase the risk of dependence, tolerance, and adverse effects.

Even though your spouse is resistant to seeing a doctor, it’s important to try and convince them to get evaluated. Nerve pain could be complex and may require medical intervention beyond what can be managed at home.

Working for effective pain management plan is essential. This might include non-opioid pain relievers (NSAIDs, Topical Treatments, Some Antidepressants, Clonidine), nerve pain medications (e.g., Gabapentin or Pregabalin), or even exploring options like physical therapy.

I urge you not to self-medicate with opioids until all other methods have been exhausted.

Your spouse can write me a private message here with details, then I will try to give a more targeted recommendation.
 
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