Let’s get it straight: there is only one ‘type’ of MDMA

[bblanco]

‘A new type of MDMA’ turns out to be a synthetic cannabinoid.
Often after adverse medical incidents, the media will push the narrative that a new ‘type’ of MDMA caused a specific incident. But lets be very, very clear. There are no ‘types’ of MDMA.

A substance is either MDMA, or it’s another drug that was misrepresented as MDMA. This is the exact modern equivalent of people in the 1930’s who died after drinking industrial methanol sold as ‘whiskey’, and the cause is the same: Prohibition.

Although it is possible to have a medical incident (or even die) from pure MDMA, these deaths are exceedingly rare, and almost always involve environmental components (for instance, a venue that is too hot, or inadequate intake of water and electrolytes).

However, every year we see new, often far more dangerous substances being misrepresented as MDMA as governments continue their never-ending and futile game of molecular whack-a-mole.

Despite the dozens of media reports about a ‘new type of MDMA’ hospitalizing people in the UK, we now know that the substance they consumed was actually a synthetic cannabinoid. For a balanced and factual update, check out this article from mixmag.

Please remember, if you do choose to consume, always #TestIt first, and even if a substance tests as what you expected it to be, still take all the steps that you can to mitigate the risks of consumption. TDont think if the "test" shows an "OK" dont rely on it and start small doses to build up effect. Read some oldskool trip reports from people in the 90's and their experience taking MDMA and compare. Also take time to cool down, drink enough water and electrolytes, and keep an eye out for your friends.

 

[Richardrahl]

Ok so there are many kinds of MDMA.

everything from impurties left in the synethsis, to improperly clean stuff or under/over oxidation. These can pass GC/MS tests and FTIR sometimes but not NMR...

Besides that I believe MAPS has identified AT 3-4 different types of mdma crystals as they recrystalized from MEOH FROM pure mdma.

The path for a molecule, therefore, from early-phase API and drug product to a commercial product, is an iterative one. It involves increased levels of understanding around the synthesis, potential impurities, isomers, crystalline forms, and physical properties—all of which need to be controlled and understood to the fullest, as they can have an effect the safety and pharmacology of the drug.

The chemistry of MDMA is not a given, and requires expert development to get to the commercial standard we need to ensure patient access and safety at scale. However, it should not be expected that we will stop learning about the chemistry of this compound; changes in manufacturing process, scale, and product formulation can bring with them new challenges and lessons.

Another significant lesson from the last 12 months of API development work was the discovery of two new polymorphic forms of MDMA, never seen previously in the literature. A polymorph refers to a well-defined crystalline structure, where the molecules are attached to each other in a repeatable pattern. A good example of this is C6 (carbon). Carbon will bond to itself six times to form the commonly known “benzene ring” molecule. However, the way these C6 molecules bond to each other can take different crystalline or polymorphic forms, such as diamond vs graphite. Both polymorphs are the same molecule—but one, diamond, is the hardest substance known and the other, graphite, one of the softest. This is an extreme example, but clearly shows why it is so important to understand the chemistry of any molecule that is being developed for human use.

Thankfully, in the case of MDMA, the polymorphism is not as extreme as carbon. But previously in the literature, based on the limited investigations, there was thought to be only one polymorph form of MDMA (“The ecstasy and the agony; compression studies of 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine [MDMA]”, Acta Crystallographica Section B Structural Science, Crystal Engineering and Materials, 2015).

This MDMA polymorph form is the same that has been used in all MAPS sponsored studies to date, now known as “Form 1,” previously characterized through X-ray powder diffraction (XRPD). It is by far the most stable of the forms, and to force the MDMA molecules into the new polymorphs (Form 2 and Form 3) it requires manipulation using different solvents and crystallization techniques. Both Form 2 and Form 3 are metastable to Form 1, meaning that they easily revert to Form 1. However, now that their presence is known, identification of these forms has been added to the release and stability specifications via a method sensitive enough to identify them (even in small quantities relative to Form 1).

Although the commercial development of the MDMA drug product is yet to start, the first drug product batches manufactured via an automated process have provided us clear areas for improved understanding of the physical properties of MDMA and its the current excipients, the substances used to provide flowability and lubrication during the encapsulation process..

As you can see very minor impurties and crystal structure can cause DRASTIC difference it might all be "pure mdma" but without NMR, HPLC and XRPD the clandestine chemist is left in the dark.

 

[Richardrahl]

Source.

The Commercial Chemistry of MDMA: From Research to Patient Access – Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies – MAPS

maps.org

 

[Richardrahl]

Crystal structure of new chemical entities (NCE) became among the years a critical quality
attribute of new API and drug products. Different Polymorphs may have different physico –
chemical properties, affecting the performance in terms of efficacy and potentially safety of
the pharmaceutical products (remember the Ritonavir Case?).
X-ray powder diffraction (XRPD) is a key tool for characterizing the structural order or
disorder of solid APIs or DP, identifying the solid forms of any given polymorph, solvate, co-
crystal or salt by distinctive combinations of diffraction peaks and order parameters. Unique
X-ray powder diffraction (XRPD) patterns can also distinguish the different phases, or
polymorphs, within a particular material, confirmed by comparing profiles against reference
materials and a library database of expected polymorphs. XRPD is crucial for pharmaceutical
products characterization and control.
Solid state scientists must face the challenge of obtaining XRPD data in compliance with the
regulations (e.g., GMP), guidelines (e.g., ICH) and authority’s requirements and expectations
since the objective of the characterization and QC activities is to ensure and assure that the
pharmaceutical product can be released safely and in an accurate manner for human use with
all the critical quality attributes under control. This means to have in place an overall quality
system of the lab that includes the solid-state techniques, like XRPD.
Despite the importance of the solid form control in API and Drug Products from the early
phases of development up to commercial, the international guidelines (e.g., ICH) are not
always crystal clear on the requirements to perform XRPD in full compliance (as well as other
solid state analytical techniques).
The requirements in terms of XRPD method development and validation according to an
incremental approach to validation based on development phase and the related criteria to
prove method specificity, precision, accuracy et al., will be matter of discussion considering
pharmacopeia indications and the current and future versions of the ICH guidelines (including
Q2 and Q14).


Also see not MDMA BUT how and why these crystals forms the 3 currently known are important.

Polymorphs In A Pandemic: Leveraging Synchrotron PXRD To Enable Rapid Development Of A
Covid-19 Antiviral During the development of molnupiravir and prior to achieving Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) from the FDA and other global regulatory agencies, two anhydrous polymorphs of molnupiravir—Form 1 and Form 2—were discovered, introducing questions around the stability, solubility, and bioavailability of each form. The crystal structure of Form 1 was confirmed by single crystal X-ray diffraction, and served as an important data point in assigning the tautomeric state of the compound in the solid state. In contrast, the structure of Form 2 was determined by Rietveld refinement with synchrotron powder diffraction data and corroborated by crystal structure prediction (CSP).

https://www.icdd.com/assets/ppxrd/17/PPXRD-17-Program.pdf

 

[Richardrahl]

Purification of MDMA is typically achieved following vacuum distillation of the freebase and/or crystallization of the hydrochloride salt.16 The hydrochloride salt can exist as one of several different hydrated or forms.1 possibly even dehydrated

Dark Classics in Chemical Neuroscience: 3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA)

Better known as “ecstasy,” 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) is a small molecule that has played a prominent role in defining the ethos of today’s teenagers and young adults, much like lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) did ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

1. Shulgin AT (1986) The background and chemistry of MDMA. J. Psychoactive Drugs. 18, 291–304. [PubMed] [Google Scholar]

 

[Richardrahl]

Some people don't want to become chefs, they just want to grill a quick burger. Not for me to judge. XD
People just don't approach it right I think though and lots of wrong comment arrive on this board for people not learning
It all starts from strikes books wanting to grill a burger. It's when you learn to make something deconstructed from the skills you learned is when one starts. To really become a person that doesn't char the mdma repeatedly But who am I to judge if you want a under oxidized burger. Or a well done steak?

Someone was like I get ethyl MDP2P glycidate is for mdma and BMK for for meth and speed. Please help?

I go many the best way is really to start to LEARN chemistry from scratch then if you wanna use the ethyl go ahead.

THE gov knows about the methyl and ethyl and there are better ways I won't discuss. I really did say you need to learn learn... then go back and do what whatever. But all people want is GPS. Not a map and compass. Which argumentative is so much better in this example

It's crazy to think of the world you can unlock as you really grasp the concepts of chemistry The world becomes alchemy but everyone wants the shortcut.without truly understanding.


I can develop 20+ different unwatched ways to MDMA that I live close to heart that I dont want to release but if they really learn it's all in strike total synthesis 2 you just use it as a map and compass and not a "cookbook i'll follow recipes" But if someone asks me to press MDMA Hell NO .. I read the hive guide on it and nope years ago. Someone I know with a masters in chem and teaches chem in school, he pirated a text book on pharmaceutical dry powder mixing and tableting And read a lot Then gave up
Because there's no way I'm gonna be able to do it properly. Like it requires large scale, high end equipment at every step and mix validation. Like if you have your geometric dilution done properly and your particle size properly granulated to 300-400 micron you can still fuck it up with bad mixing technique Like people don't understand that mixing for longer is actually worse
Because it causes segregation of your api and binders. Like a proper mix time could be like 5 minutes Or 20 min.
You can only find out by validation And then on top of that all You have to fill your mixer to 50% or else it will segregate
Like this shit is so sensitive. Learning this stuff especially new restricted drugs isnt an exact science. Ive been learning this for years with an emphasis in MDMA manufacture and it's clear. ALL MDMA IS NOT the same. And yes i'm talking multiple lab tested stuff that was has multiple different tests such as NMR, GC/MS, FTIR and others along with the same sample going to EC and private labs the exact sample samples. Different lab equipment and testers and it isnt as clear cut as ‘A new type of MDMA’ turns out to be a synthetic cannabinoid when lab tests say otherwise... not just reagents

It is quite clear The path for a molecule, therefore, from early-phase API and drug product to a commercial product, is an iterative one. It involves increased levels of understanding around the synthesis, potential impurities, isomers, crystalline forms, and physical properties—all of which need to be controlled and understood to the fullest, as they can have an effect the safety and pharmacology of the drug. And the path to uncle tom grilling you are burger, me devloping routes and MAPS Making MDMA a michelle star dinner is completely different.







Like dry powder mixing is a whole fucking field of science.And pharmaceutical compounding aswell. . Along with the Crystal structure of new chemical entities (NCE) became among the years a critical quality attribute of new API and drug products. Different Polymorphs may have different physico – chemical properties, affecting the performance in terms of efficacy and potentially safety of the pharmaceutical products (remember the Ritonavir Case?)

 

[triptonaut123]

To be fair and keeping it on topic, there is only one 3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA). There is really no other MDMA in 100% pure form because the name represents a certain molecule. You can argue all you want about impurities affecting effects etc and the synthesis being tricky, and 100% pure MDMA gets rarely sold in illegal circuits, but that's besides the point OP is making.

 

[Richardrahl]

YES BUT ALSO Nope did you not read what I wrote?

Different polymorphs can have considerable effects on the physical and chemical properties of the compound. Polymorphs pose a considerable headache for the pharmaceutical industry as more than 50% of Active Pharmaceutical Ingredients (APIs) can generate polymorphs. This can have considerable implications for the compound itself, but more importantly, pharmacokinetics, especially bioavailability and motility.

Polymorphs are different crystal forms of the SAME compound, differing due to the arrangements of molecules within the unit cells of the crystalline lattice of each crystal form.

In materials science, polymorphism describes the existence of a solid material in more than one form or crystal structure. Polymorphism is a form of isomerism. Any crystalline material can exhibit the phenomenon. Allotropy refers to polymorphism for chemical elements. Polymorphism is of practical relevance to pharmaceuticals, agrochemicals, pigments, dyestuffs, foods, and explosives. According to IUPAC, a polymorphic transition is "A reversible transition of a solid crystalline phase at a certain temperature and pressure (the inversion point) to another phase of the same chemical composition with a different crystal structure."[1] According to McCrone, polymorphs are "different in crystal structure but identical in the liquid or vapor states."[2][3] Materials with two polymorphs are called dimorphic, with three polymorphs, trimorphic, etc.

This MDMA polymorph form is the same that has been used in all MAPS sponsored studies to date, now known as “Form 1,” previously characterized through X-ray powder diffraction (XRPD). It is by far the most stable of the forms, and to force the MDMA molecules into the new polymorphs (Form 2 and Form 3) it requires manipulation using different solvents and crystallization techniques. Both Form 2 and Form 3 are metastable to Form 1, meaning that they easily revert to Form 1. However, now that their presence is known, identification of these forms has been added to the release and stability specifications via a method sensitive enough to identify them (even in small quantities relative to Form 1).

The path for a molecule, therefore, from early-phase API and drug product to a commercial product, is an iterative one. It involves increased levels of understanding around the synthesis, potential impurities, isomers, crystalline forms, and physical properties—all of which need to be controlled and understood to the fullest, as they can have an effect the safety and pharmacology of the drug.

The chemistry of MDMA is not a given, and requires expert development to get to the commercial standard we need to ensure patient access and safety at scale. However, it should not be expected that we will stop learning about the chemistry of this compound;

 

[Richardrahl]

There are something I will admit ... if we get technical. Yes

There is only MDMA it's formal (IUPAC) name is N-methyl-1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)propan-2-amine, it's CAS# is (CAS-42542-10-09) is commonly known as 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine or methylenedioxy-methylamfetamine.

I will admit that is THE one and only.. however. And this is a huge HOWEVER... for people that just wanna cook a quick burger and make mdma or become McDonald's need to learn this. Different polymorphs or Allotropy can have considerable effects on the physical and chemical properties of the compound. Polymorphs pose a considerable headache for the pharmaceutical industry as more than 50% of Active Pharmaceutical Ingredients (APIs) can generate polymorphs. This can have considerable implications for the compound itself, but more importantly, pharmacokinetics, especially bioavailability and motility of a drug.

Even at 99.99% MDMA VIA NMR HPLC ETC pharma quality no impurities mdma. It is VERY important to know This MDMA polymorph form is the same that has been used in all MAPS sponsored studies to date, now known as “Form 1,” previously characterized through X-ray powder diffraction (XRPD). It is by far the most stable of the forms, and to force the MDMA molecules into the new polymorphs (Form 2 and Form 3) it requires manipulation using different solvents and crystallization techniques. Both Form 2 and Form 3 are metastable to Form 1, meaning that they easily revert to Form 1 via recrystalization. But and this a HUGE BUT. there is only one molecule with the common name MDMA it's (IUPAC) name is N-methyl-1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)propan-2-amine, it's CAS# is (CAS-42542-10-09) but we know of at least 3 different mdma polymorphs and finding out about polymorphism is tied to funding on that molecule. It will test as mdma and the only way to discern it is via xray

 

[Richardrahl]

but we know of at least 3 different mdma polymorphs and finding out about polymorphism is tied to funding on that molecule. It will test as mdma and the only way to discern it is via xray



The use of polymorphous structures is complicated by the fact that, for many of them, we do not know their form and unit cell parameters. Another important factor concerning different polymorphs is the difference in their physical properties such as powder property, melting point, enthalpy of fusion, dissolution behavior, etc. [10].



The morphology of polymorphs plays a key part in their application; hence, much importance is attached to elucidating the structure of polymorphous modifications. Almost all microscopy options, X-ray single crystal diffraction, solid-state nuclear magnetic resonance, IR spectroscopy including terahertz (3–100 cm−1), Raman spectroscopy, and differential scanning calorimetry, are used to study and identify polymorphs of drugs



And the only way to learn about the different ones is spend more money. Thus you have MDMA but at least 3 different polymorphs all acting way different. Thus there is more then 1 kind of MDMA crystal it is MDMA but can only be decered via other mdma with multiple different lab tests it's formal (IUPAC) name is N-methyl-1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)propan-2-amine, it's CAS# is (CAS-42542-10-09

But we def have confirmed 3 different kinds of sure

We def need less back yard cooks and people taking a more deep look

 

[Richardrahl]

Not me "maps" During my A-levels (the UK’s version of high school), I made the choice to drop art class and take up chemistry. I had come to really enjoy chemistry during my school years, and eventually it seemed like a better option for me to study than art, which felt too abstract—chemistry is exact and predictable, right? What I learned throughout those years and my subsequent chemistry degree, however, was something different: Science is not exact, and our understanding is constantly evolving. It started to seem like a relentless attempt to place evermore complex sets of round pegs in square holes.


Having said that, it is not as though the results of these human scientific endeavors aren’t astounding and necessary, as they include feats of engineering and medicine. The point is that even those feats are imperfect; they are not always fully understood and can carry risks. Just like the building that won awards for structural and architectural brilliance can have unknown faults and fail years later, the drug that is shown to be highly effective in its target indication can bring unknown side effects that surface after licensure.


This background helps me understand why the chemistry of MDMA, a well-known molecule first developed in 1912 and patented by Merck in 1914, is not exact, not yet fully known, and still requires detailed, stringent analyses and controls.

And why one does not simply easily dissolved in water. I think this last argument is also the strongest against your case. . If people didnt boof it put it in water etc. etc. etc. even after multiple re crystallizations in multuple solvents to the point where MDMA begun looking like pure meth shards but still having issues in water or orally.It has an excellent bio-availability in the 60-70% range kinda flys out the window when I recrystallized MDMA to look like pure meth. With me and many other people it was still strangely still felt lackluster?


The path for a molecule, therefore, from early-phase API and drug product to a commercial product, is an iterative one. It involves increased levels of understanding around the synthesis, potential impurities, isomers, crystalline forms, and physical properties—all of which need to be controlled and understood to the fullest, as they can have an effect the safety and pharmacology of the drug.

The chemistry of MDMA is not a given, and requires expert development to get to the commercial standard we need to ensure patient access and safety at scale. However, it should not be expected that we will stop learning about the chemistry of this compound; changes in manufacturing process, scale, and product formulation can bring with them new challenges and lessons.

The Commercial Chemistry of MDMA: From Research to Patient Access – Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies – MAPS

maps.org

 

[Richardrahl]

I also wanna say I dont know crap about this but there has to be something to it that other people understand better then me. and have degrees but the honest truth I think the real pros even people producing 100s of kilos are still missing something maybe nick sand or others might know ... but then again MAPS doesnt even have much more info vs me or others...

 

[Richardrahl]

triptonaut123 I havent even BEGUN talking about allotropy allotropy, the existence of a chemical element in two or more forms, which may differ in the arrangement of atoms in crystalline solids or in the occurrence of molecules that contain different numbers of atoms.

So Polymorphs are different crystal forms of the SAME compound, differing due to the arrangements of molecules within the unit cells of the crystalline lattice of each crystal form.

And allotropy A chemical element exhibits allotropy when it can have a stable existence in more than one crystal form.

 

[Mr Good Cat]

For those fellas, who live in the EU, I would suggest the simpliest way to get all necessary tests of MDMA and its purity:

MDMA Test Kit

Test with the best ★ Purity tests ★ For 800+ substances ★ Discreet packaging ★ Daily dispatch ★ Free shipping available

protestkit.eu

MDMA Purity Test Kit (TLC)

protestkit.eu

As I remember, crypto is acceptable as well.

 

[Richardrahl]

I'm my experience tlc is great for telling you your mdma is mdma. It's not really great on which form. Purity in the high 80s-90s we are use to etc. Even with nmr, gcms etc it turns out my lab and energy control are missing something and that final 10% makes a huge difference it's ok. But you still need melting point etc etc. TLC or even HPLC alone is not enough AND IS AN OK REFERENCE point but most won't have access to proper labs to test. Even with Energy control or getyourdrugstested.com at least in my experience

If Running a column is great at separating compounds no doubt if done RIGHT. But recrystalization is needed cuz polymorphs but spot plate TLC?

 

[Richardrahl]

but spot plate TLC?

It's ok but there is alot then meets the eye to the trained chemist. Forget someone buying and using a tlc plate it def is NOT enough better thrn nothing but still not good in my experience

 

[Mr Good Cat]

you are right. but i'm not saying this protest is the best solution. i'm saying it is easily and safely accessible solution, that can help you to determine side compounds in the stuff you bought from the street vendor, and relatively precisely percentage (if you are trained) of main compound. and it is already better than nothing.

also thank you for the interesting topic. i will try to realize it as soon as my mind will be less busy.

 

[Richardrahl]

Yes I did want to come in and chime in . Please don't think I try and offend anyone. Less anyone that wants to do drug testing.

Getyourdrugstested.com is always FREE, FTIR and they accept international parcels. I always test my stuff every batch. But TLC IS GREAT for say is your ket cut with MSG. Or MDMA cut with MSM or alike.

But if you are really aiming for that final 5-10% in my experience you really need hplc, NMR and xray I don't judge or shun anyone for testing just a TCL spot plate might detect similar compounds as mdma like GC/MS or ftir might or does sometimes

 

[triptonaut123]

Polymorphism is a phenomenon related to the arrangement of molecules in a solid. In the context of pharmaceuticals, this can significantly influence the properties of a drug, I'm with you on this. There could be different crystal arrangements of MDMA (I didn't look it up but I can see this happening, especially with different impurities affecting formation). But polymorphism is a topic mostly for high potency drugs (<mg scale), complex drugs (because of their many potential structures eg Ritonavir which had this specific issue) and hydrophobic drugs (difficult to break down and get to the blood in the proper amount. None of these are properties of MDMA. Mdma is used in the 100 mg range, it not very complex, and is easily dissolved in water. I think this last argument is also the strongest against your case. The stomach will break down any form of MDMA because it's so easily dissolved. It has an excellent bioavailability in the 60-70% range. If you are so concerned about MDMA polymorphism, dissolve your stuff in water, no more polymorphism, just MDMA molecules in water.

 

[Richardrahl]

The stomach will break down any form of MDMA because it's so easily dissolved. It has an excellent bioavailability in the 60-70% range. If you are so concerned about MDMA polymorphism, dissolve your stuff in water, no more polymorphism, just MDMA molecules in water.

Bwahahah how cute...

You think that but have you looked into MEH MDMA...

NOONE really knows what it is. If you are so concerned about MDMA polymorphism, dissolve your stuff in water, no more polymorphism, just MDMA molecules in water.

We have DOESNT WORK

BOOFING DOESNT WORK.

form of intake including drink causes issues... it is MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MORE the just polymorphism and your avg LAB CANT test it. It must go thru the ringer of NMR, HPLC XRAY ETC...

It's much much more then polymorphism because if it was JUST polymorphism THE DISLOVE in water would fix it but that doesnt

 

[Richardrahl]

Mod edit: The old thread has gone over 250 pages a while ago, which is about the length we use as a soft limit for threads, which lessens the impact on our database. As such, this is the new iteration of the "What is wrong with the MDMA available today?" thread. The previous iteration of this thread can be found here

Let me first give you a little background. I'm 51 years old and started doing ecstasy the last year it was legal in 1985. Needless to say the legal ecstasy from the so called "Dallas Group" was nothing short of spectacular. In 1988 I made a connection with someone from the San Francisco area who was in the production field of making MDMA. I have maintained that friendship and connection ever since with only small periods of downtime. The MDMA I get from him is an extremely fine bleach white crystalline powder that is fluffy and lays just like snow. The high from this MDMA takes about 10-15 minutes to take effect and the high is always the same. An extremely smooth come up followed by excessive love and empathy. You will literally melt into the person you're with and sex is out of this world. Touch and feel is heavenly. All you want to do is touch and feel on the person youre with and tell them how beautiful they are and how much you love them etc. There are massive eye wiggles and conversation flows like new born buddas. The come down is just as smooth as the come up. It drops you off just like a feather and sleep comes like a baby. The next day is nothing short of spectacular. You wake up feeling anti-depressed and chatty. You'll want to talk on the phone, visit friends or just drive around and enjoy the day with the top down. It's all I've ever known as an MDMA experience.

Now that brings me to modern day MDMA. There was a period back in the early 2000's when my connection was down and I scored pills from a local guy. They were great and with some very small exceptions, nearly as good as my crystalline powder. But once again I've been forced to score something locally and the stuff is just plain crap. And I mean crap. I've done both the orange Tesla's and the red Supremes. Absolutely awful, but from reading the trip reports on Pillreports, you would have thought they were the best ever. They're actually anything but. I had both of these pills tested on ecstasydata and both came back as pure MDMA.

Both of them took about 30-40 minutes to kick in and when they did, there was a slight feeling of euphoria and empathy that quickly faded and from there on out it was just a fucked up buzz. There were eye wiggles, but I wasn't feeling good when they were happening. I became extremely tired and kind of gacked out. The high from these pills seemed to last forever, maybe just because they sucked so much. I felt like a crackhead on the comedown and the next day felt like a bad MDA hangover. There was no next day afterglow at all. Just a different kind of fucked up than the night before. And that lasted the entire next day. There is a HUGE giveaway that youre doing todays crappy MDMA. Your pupils will not dialate all the way to the very edge like old school ecstasy. With old school ecstasy your pupils consume literally all of the color in your eye with only a microscopic sliver of color left around the outer edge. With modern day ecstasy your pupils will only dialate to slightly beyond normal if at all. Thats a big giveaway youre doing new school MDMA junk.

Before you jump to the assumption that this Le Junk guy is just old, hes done way to much ecstasy over the course of his lifetime and this is just a matter of tolerance, please re-read my post stating that I still have access to old school MDMA that Ive had since the 1980s. So in one hand I have modern day lab tested MDMA crap and in the other hand, old school MDMA heaven. So tolerance is out the window. Moving forward...

My question is this. Is this the best there is out there today? And since both pills tested on ecstasydata as pure MDMA, what is wrong with MDMA production nowdays? Does anyone else feel what I'm talking about here? My setting is pretty much always the same so that's not it. I always hear people talk about the setting as if that's an issue. With the crystalline powder, it doesn't matter where I am, it's always great. But with these Supremes and Teslas, it's just a sub-par, little euphoria, no real love or empathy, fucked up kinda buzz. Let me put it this way, if this was all that was available to me, I'd quit taking MDMA altogether. Terrible!

 

[Richardrahl]

Please read this first, before posting to the thread “What is Wrong with the MDMA Available Today?”

We are specifically discussing MDMA that has been sent to a lab (such as Energy Control or Drugs Data), tested with some form of GCMS or other lab testing in NMR, found to be MDMA, but presents with a different effects profile than typical MDMA. We are not discussing un-tested product that could be anything or contain any adulterant.
“Loss of magic” does not explain the issue, because the alternate effects profile has been experienced by users new to MDMA, including MDMA virgins and users with a short history of use. Also, many users who have experienced this sub-par MDMA go on to experience traditional MDMA from other batches of product with no loss of quality to the experience.
“Set and Setting” does not explain the issue because it has been experienced across multiple settings/environments/circumstances. Furthermore, multiple users report experiencing the sub-par effects from one batch, and then trying a different batch and easily rolling with a traditional effects profile.
Dosage does not explain the issue, because the questionable products have been tested in a wide range of doses from low to high with no improvement in effects.
Route of administration does not change the issue, as several users report alternate routes of administration from pill in drink, to boofing with no change in effects.

No, we do not mean to imply that ALL modern MDMA is of poor quality. Obviously, there is plenty of high-quality MDMA out there. However, there is a large amount of poor-quality product available, and it has been reported across multiple continents and regions.
Although we have not currently identified the specific nature of this problem, we have discussed a variety of possibilities based on published research articles. Some of the possible explanations are: undetected contaminants, structurally similar compounds that present as MDMA to GCMS, metabolic/liver processing issues, drug polymorphism, and isomer ratios.

Please review the below chart for a simplified visual of what has been noted by many contributors to this thread over the last several years. These are generalizations based on observations and may not be true in every circumstance.