Selling "Legal" Analogues In US?

[CryoThio]

I'm wondering if someone can clarify some things for me.

First, I thought the analogue act applies to schedule 2 drugs and higher, but not schedule 3 or lower. So say someone sells a drug online, say a ketamine or benzodiazepine analogue, but includes the obviously bull caveat "not for human consumption" or something similar to mephedrone, being sold as plant food, or the notorious "bath salts".

What can the police charge you with? It's gotta be something, they won't just let you get away with "selling drugs" by saying "not for human consumption" Try this one trick police hate!

Not selling something like 3mmc, which the dea has already said they consider it an analogue, but something that doesn't fall under the analogue act, which I thought were ketamine and benzo analogues.

 

[Frit Buchner]

Why would analogs of ketamine or benzos not fall under the analogs act?
I just perused it quickly and my feeling is;
• schedule I and II analogs will be tried as if they are schedule I drugs.
•schedule III, IV, V, AND VI drugs will be prosecuted as the drug they are an analog of.

 

[CryoThio]

Not a lawyer, but they can't seem to use the analogue act if the related drug isn't schedule 1 or 2.

My reading is if there is an analogue, of say ketamine, schedule 3, then as long as it is marketed as "not for human consumption" then one is much more in a gray area. Maybe they can charge you with selling unauthorized medicine, or something like that (just an example, not an exact law).

It just seems that there is not much of a clear answer for what the state or federal agents might do.

 

[thevines2]

IME if it doesn't fall under federal analogue act of 1984(I think was 84? Not double checking rn) and if you don't get caught in middle of the sale. I always called rcs by real names even tho everyone sold it Molly saying really mdma, had a few friends get caught with ethylone/bk-mdma and 4mmc both before scheduled at all. Called it by proper name to cops. Drugs dumped on ground and 200+$ littering fine for the plastic baggy. They seriously sat and Googled bk-mdea on image search to compare it hahahaha like yup that's it cuz didn't pop on field test

 

[thevines2]

IME if it doesn't fall under federal analogue act of 1984(I think was 84? Not double checking rn) and if you don't get caught in middle of the sale. I always called rcs by real names even tho everyone sold it Molly saying really mdma, had a few friends get caught with ethylone/bk-mdma and 4mmc both before scheduled at all. Called it by proper name to cops. Drugs dumped on ground and 200+$ littering fine for the plastic baggy. They seriously sat and Googled bk-mdea on image search to compare it hahahaha like yup that's it cuz didn't pop on field test

thevines2But if you are calling even legal chems Molly or something else illegal can be charged for it

 

[CryoThio]

But if you are calling even legal chems Molly or something else illegal can be charged for it

thevines2Absolutely this. Never sell something legal as something illegal, charge is the same

 

[SoldadoDeDrogas]

Oct 2015 - I had a partner who ended up getting caught up and sold me out to save his ass. He set me up to sell 28g of 'molly' to an undercover state trooper. It gave a positive for amphetamines on a field drug test and I was thus arrested. It was packed in a 'spice' baggie labeled as incense -not for human consumption- (thinking this would help claim my innocence.) I spent about a year and a half going to court because they couldn't identify it at the laboratory. They misidentified it 3 times. I was one appearance away from them dismissing the case when they came back and said it was Ethylone, which apparently got scheduled in USA as of July 2015, I believe. I knew I was going to be had at that point. There was nothing my lawyer could say or do (court appointed) - I went and got several opinions from other lawyers and they basically said the same thing. "You got a hand to hand with a undercover cop with an illegal substance, its an open and shut case" That false sense of security of operating in the 'grey area' cost me 3 years in state prison and everything that went along with it. I probably could have fought a little and gotten better results, but by that time I was just happy to get it over with.

 

[Frit Buchner]

That totally sucks bro. Sorry that happened. Did you know what it was? In the court of law in the US, you don't have to know something is illegal to be arrested and jailed for it, but there's another aspect to it and that is intent. If the bag said not for human consumption and didn't say anything about drugs, your lawyer could have argued that you didn't know what it was. Maybe. I don't know the specifics. It might have gotten you a reduced sentence or a lesser charge. A smart person would save the first $2000 they made and get a lawyer on retainer. There's such a thing as prepaid lawyers. You pay the retainer and then if something happens they bill you for the hours and filings ect. I know that sounds excessive but a court appointed lawyer gets paid from the same account that the prosecutor gets paid from. AND the judge. It's specifically not supposed to be that way but it is. Your court appointed lawyer works for the other side and he's the low man on the totem pole. He sees these guys daily and they are notoriously resistant to angering their superiors. You have to have a lawyer though. You cannot, as a defendant, file for discovery, an extension or a number of other things. You can not negotiate with the prosecutor either. If the judge decides to let you, you can, but you have to ask special permission and he's under no obligation to humor you

 

[SoldadoDeDrogas]

Indeed, a smart person does put aside their first few stacks, 1. BAIL 2. LAWYER 3. A few years worth of comissary (worst case lol). Do I know what 'the substance' was? The people I was going through originally had 'molly' they also called it m1. Which I believe to be methylone. It was a rusty brown/orange rock crystal with a distinct smell. After a while, they had the 'second generation' which they claimed was still legal as it was the next analog in line (though I knew about tikhal and what not, the whole RC scene was somewhat new to me, so I was a bit gullible as information couldn't really be had, I mean, they still had 'incense' at some of the stores at the time.) Anyway, they called it m2, it was a pale yellow color, much less intense and shorter lasting than the m1, but still enjoyable. They originally charged me with trafficking MDMA, but after over a year of them fugging around with me and the lab results. They went from MDMA, to something else (I forget exactly, some beatnik stim that was big in the 50s) to mephedrone to MDPV(bathsalts) and finally ethylone when I got indicted. ....INDICTED JANE!

You are totally right though, those court appointed goons are lower than whale shit. I've had a few that actually got me off of little things over the years. I fired my first lawyer actually, The guy I ended up with was probably worse. Never did anything aside from try to get me a deal from the start. Faster turn over - more money for them. "It's either you plead out or go to trial and I would advise against it because frankly you're going to lose" and then proceed to threaten me with numbers. "If you lose you're looking at up to 10 for the max." I know the game, they all golf together on the weekends and make trade offs, and it was very obvious I was being lied to. The second opinions weren't very hopeful either though, a few guys from out of the area, for a few thousand dollars, claimed they would go in swinging their dick, but said basically that it was going to be "hard to convince a jury, they got you on a slam dunk." Them being experienced with more tangible 'hard drug' cases. I could have probably done better, I coulda done worse too. I was offered 18 months in county with 3 years probation, shit like that. I opted for the state time with no probation. 3 years (2year mando + loss of license for 3y) I was out in 2 and a half with goodtime. They're supposed to stick with you throughout your sentence also, should you want to appeal or something. Dickhead never answered my collect calls from inside.

 

[Frit Buchner]

You hit the nail on the head with the court appointed lawyers I handed one I had once a detailed scheme to get one charge dropped and it included a dead exact case the the circuit court of appeals overturned,( they charged me for a hit and run, but what I hit was a sign owned by the city, and city hall was closed since it was night time, and under this states laws I had 24 hours to report it but they arrested me 3 hours later. If it had been private property or a vehicle or someone was injured I would have had to call the cops or go straight to the police station. ) She said, "well did you do it though?" Not what they are charging me for, no. "Well, I would just take what they offered you, you could have been charged for more"

 

[PseudoMicroGravity]

Yeah, the system is fucked up. If every single defendant knew their rights and refused to waive their right to a speedy trial, and refused to make a plea-bargain, lawyers would actually have to start doing their jobs, and the courts would grind down to a near halt. Even a small jury trial is time consuming and super expensive! If everyone insisted on one, states wouldn't even be able to prosecute all of the lawbreakers, and would have to pick and choose from the most severe cases. I bet this alone would lead to law reform.

 

[SoldadoDeDrogas]

Yeah, the system is fucked up. If every single defendant knew their rights and refused to waive their right to a speedy trial, and refused to make a plea-bargain, lawyers would actually have to start doing their jobs, and the courts would grind down to a near halt. Even a small jury trial is time consuming and super expensive! If everyone insisted on one, states wouldn't even be able to prosecute all of the lawbreakers, and would have to pick and choose from the most severe cases. I bet this alone would lead to law reform.

PseudoMicroGravityI totally agree Pseudo
It is a shame that most of these court appointed lawyers prey on the ignorance and laziness of their clients. Just take the deal, faster in, faster out, faster turn over, less work, more faces, more money, that is the name of their game. If people only knew their "rights" and stood firm. I think we could, indeed, start a law reform based on that alone. They have come close to doing it on their own in my area, as far as non violent drug offenders go. Over crowding, early release, lesser sentences etc.

 

[PseudoMicroGravity]

I totally agree Pseudo
It is a shame that most of these court appointed lawyers prey on the ignorance and laziness of their clients. Just take the deal, faster in, faster out, faster turn over, less work, more faces, more money, that is the name of their game. If people only knew their "rights" and stood firm. I think we could, indeed, start a law reform based on that alone. They have come close to doing it on their own in my area, as far as non violent drug offenders go. Over crowding, early release, lesser sentences etc.

SoldadoDeDrogasYeah, only problem is everybody has to do it, they have no problem currently railroading someone for insisting that their rights not be infringed and seeking true justice by the letter of the law. Basically, if one person insists that they actually do their job, they get shitty and make a point out of putting you down hard. Unless of course you have MONEY and procure your own lawyer. Cash always lightens any sentance, enough cash and there is no sentance. Public Pretender just ain't going to cut it if you try to go this route on your own. Sigh.

 

[CryoThio]

I think the only way one could get away with selling gray market drugs in the US would be to ship from a foreign country, like the infamous lizard labs, shipping from Spain, Netherlands, or to have something which doesn't fall under the analogue act either.

In my opinion, ketamine analogues fall under this. Ketamine is schedule 3, and only drugs under schedule 1 and 2 fall under the analogue act.

 

[Moonbow112ix]

@SoldadoDeDrogas hahahaha I literally had a good laugh at “indicted Jane” i low key went room to room in my house quietly exclaiming ,”indicted Jane, INDICTED” you must be a cool individual because I was and still am feeling some pain for that charge sticking; the rc waltz was fucked to see in county jail or to know what happened to friends here in the states, 9/10 just like you, pops for amphetamine sometimes meth, then they either sign for something as soon as the test was inconclusive and others did what I would do which is wide you did and I’d let it ride and roll the dice, I myself worked getting a felony POCS AND POM dropped and was on bond for like 3 and a half years, where I live most bondsman won’t Let you stay on their roster for much over a year or two because I believe they get like 30-50 allotted Socials at a time so like myself I was paid up before year one was up? Luckily my ex in high school her and her mom own one of the biggest multi county jurisdiction bondsmen around, always good like frit said and have your ass covered from the jump, I got my tw felonies down to one misdemeanor so they actually dropped one (the pocs it was Xanax) i literally came pout the court house with a triumphant victorious smile and held my hands up and thanked the man above all with a public pretender!!

 

[SoldadoDeDrogas]

@SoldadoDeDrogas hahahaha I literally had a good laugh at “indicted Jane” i low key went room to room in my house quietly exclaiming ,”indicted Jane, INDICTED” you must be a cool individual because I was and still am feeling some pain for that charge sticking; the rc waltz was fucked to see in county jail or to know what happened to friends here in the states, 9/10 just like you, pops for amphetamine sometimes meth, then they either sign for something as soon as the test was inconclusive and others did what I would do which is wide you did and I’d let it ride and roll the dice, I myself worked getting a felony POCS AND POM dropped and was on bond for like 3 and a half years, where I live most bondsman won’t Let you stay on their roster for much over a year or two because I believe they get like 30-50 allotted Socials at a time so like myself I was paid up before year one was up? Luckily my ex in high school her and her mom own one of the biggest multi county jurisdiction bondsmen around, always good like frit said and have your ass covered from the jump, I got my tw felonies down to one misdemeanor so they actually dropped one (the pocs it was Xanax) i literally came pout the court house with a triumphant victorious smile and held my hands up and thanked the man above all with a public pretender!!

Moonbow112ixI am honored to be able to bring you some momentary enjoyment. Good to have someone understand the obscure reference. Thank you for your kind words, my friend. I look back on it now and I kind of do regret not taking that shit to the hoop - or, in other words, not going to trial. It's kind of fucked up too, now that I think about it, that they actually punish you for trying to play your hand. Would anybody in their right mind NOT pursue any possible option that might help their situation? Why wouldn't you, right? They are seriously just intimidating people, through fear and attrition, as if the deck wasn't already stacked enough. The whole justice system is a mockery, it makes me sick, really. Just thinking about trying to explain the tragedy of the whole situation. You don't realize how bad it really is.. how corrupt.. until you actually go through it. "Better off rich and guilty than poor and innocent."

 

[PseudoMicroGravity]

Hello Moonbow, I am so sorry that you had to become so personally knowledgeable about the sad state of affairs our legal system has devolved into! I believe that eventually all drugs will be legal to use, and people of the future will look back on our society and agree that we were unenlightened savages.. Peace my sister!