MDP2P to MDMA without Methylamin (copied from the internet)

[Jordan Belfort]

350, try 400 grams you will see how warm it gets, grams on 10L. I remember I had to fill a bag with aluminium foil about 2/3 was a 25L/30L white bucket with lid. This was after all way to much foil, you need less but you need to check howmuch less I forgot grams. on 200L drum, you can also use 100 it will not go up.
If you want to catch the methylamine fumes bubble in canister HCL and then in water.

10L became 12L with ph 12 with BMK (freebase meth)

Reaction only goes nuts when you use supermarket alu, get alu from the sisha stores of from lab shops which is THICKER.

Psst replace mercury with galium, easy refying and you can distill all compounds off and reuse plus non toxic and very easy reactivating with HCL 37 and recrystalissation.

 

[googie]

Do you prepare the gallium into chloride or can the nitrate be used? I have seen some articles ga/al reductions. Has anyone tried this? Would be great to not have to deal with such toxic fumes and then waste disposal.

 

[Jordan Belfort]

Let gallium react with HCL (in water solution). The gallium disappearing means it is converted to chloride.
And then freeze it out perhaps with acetone for any dirt, or boil it dry.

 

[CryoThio]

Jordan Belfort, please provide sources that gallium will work. I've seen this asked online countless times over the years, and each chemistry related place said it does not work with p2p or mdp2p. It is not as "selective" towards the reductive amination as mercury is, mercury actually plays a role in the reaction iirc, not just removing the outside layer of aluminum.

Also, the nitromethane route is useful for small scale, but as far as I know, is not good for scaling up. Search for "baal+55 gallon drum" on the vespiary, I think there is an old thread where a guy does scale this up, and it is not that much volume for a 55 gallon drum. He processes 500 grams ketone I what is essentially a 200 liter reactor...and reactions here are ran much denser
They discuss where using methylamine to form the imine, then reducing, is something like 5 times more "dense" aka requiring 5 times smaller glasswater.

 

[Jordan Belfort]

I will tell you why, in order to reduce nitromethane your temperature must be hot, and enough Al because it also need to reduce nitromethane.

Nitromethane will reduce no methylamine and to methanol. If you use NO water and you use methanol it will boil itself therefore stir and react. I personally used 0.8L nitromethane on 1L bmk and I ended with 12L base at ph 12.

Regarding gallium chloride, I was convinced it worked until I read again it will not work but I have just ordered it last week, and it's expected to arrive soon and then I will do the test myself. There are stories saying it would, and stories saying it wouldn't.
Gallium chloride creates from aluminum nanoparticles. These nanoparticles seem to do the reaction. If for some reason mercury does the electron transfer or whatever I have read, which gallium MIGHT not do, there should be an suitable catalyst we should still be able to do an very exthotermic reaction with non-toxic materials.

For example a Grignard reaction (WITHOUT alkylating agent like iodine) should NOT be able to reduce nitromethane to methylamine yet it does, see attachment. In small glass of 200ML I do 1/4 or 1/5 p2p (we don't measure) and set reaction. According to sources on internet to convert nitromethane to methylamine, a stronger reducing agent is typically needed.

 

[googie]

I'll be watching this thread very closely. Very interested about the Gallium possibility.

 

[UWe9o12jkied91d]

I wouldn't hold my breath for the gallium thing

 

[googie]

I can be an optimist. I have your way of thinking though, if it was possible, it would probably be illegal already.

 

[Jordan Belfort]

Yes I know, that is why my grignard reduced it to methylamine when it shouldn't be able to do and even made magnesium hydroperoxides which also could be a reason why the reaction is enantioselective. And if it's not I would need to add acid to release the hydroperoxide where it should be able to do so.

This is from vacuum bmk.

Anything else ?

 

[UWe9o12jkied91d]

Sir, I'm not questioning you one bit, but maybe it would be more constructive to make a new thread with your findings laid out and exact procedure written down? I would be more than curious.

 

[Jordan Belfort]

Brothers I have to disappoint you.
Seems to require external heating unlike mercury then goes much much better
It's generating methylamine and hydrogen. So I assume it will reduce the alcohol group aswell since that nitro group is more difficult to reduce then acetone
See last video now its start reacting

 

[googie]

Ok so not creating an exothermic reaction? I don't see how external heating could be a problem? Do continue.

 

[Jordan Belfort]

I added some iodine balls it makes the reaction go better, which did in this case.
The aluminum foil is 0.030 thick. Next time I will use thinner, because I want my reactions to boil else the nitromethane isn't breaking down and is for mixing.


I will get a fresh movie how its running now, I have applied weak ultrasound to it to break down the thick mofo aluminum.

 

[Jordan Belfort]

The reaction seems to be over

I let it stand overnight and tommorow boil it dry/off.

Also this gallium chloride is very acidic, pH is constant 1 or 2. I make it tomorrow 7 when heating it to 140 Celsius.

 

[OrgUnikum]

Gallium does not work. Period.

Pictures are here:

A Photo Essay on the Nitromethane Al/Hg

Just say when you pinch stuff from well known sources of information and link to it, or I will do it and this will make you look a bit - well you know how.

 

[Jordan Belfort]

Nitro groups are more difficult to reduce then acetone we will see later. I suggest you don't make a bet

 

[OrgUnikum]

Look at sciencemadness.org for this, it was tried a hundred times already andeverybody is so very enthusiastic at the beginning but later reality sinks in, and this says, it does not work.

Reducing Acetone? Hu? Have you got any plan whats going on in this kind of reaction? Nitromethane is btw very very easily reduced and it can be be done with most common and a lot of more uncommon reduction agents. Most simple, completely OTC and much cheaper then Gallium would be Zinc and Acid, like Acetic Acid or Formic Acid. This reduces Nitromethane to Methylamine with next to 100% yields. SnCl2 - tinchloride the same.

What you mean with "reducing Acetone" is probably the reduction of the Imine which forms from the condensation of methylamine and Phenylacetone (or any ketone or aldehyde). This Imine is reduced to the Amine and thats the product you want.

However you do it, I tell you it makes more sense to do this in two steps, say first reduce nitromethane to methylamine and filter off all the crap which is produced and then use the methylamine together with the ketone of choice to form the Imine and to reduce this to the Amine. You can do this in vessels 5 time less the size and without any fear of the reaction blowing to the ceiling plus you get overall better yields.

Its good to see somebody experimenting but it is painful to know he is just wasting his time.

 

[Jordan Belfort]

Are there also reports where they add iodine balls and some NaCl ?

I confirm tommorow

 

[Jordan Belfort]

Nitro is reduced to Methanol and methylamine broski

 

[Jordan Belfort]

It worked, I must check what optimum ratio's would be.
Perhaps the reaction wasn't so extrothermic because there wasn't so much alcohol group to react with.
Also I must mention to get the bubbles you get with mercury, they only occurred REALLLY SLOW until I added iodine balls, and used ultrasound for mixing.
I suggest you add mixing.

I just did taste test and I am getting defiantly high

I did most on the eye;
350MLish or 450 dirty p2p (but was putted to pH 7).
Like 100 grams gallium chloride (reaction wasn't starting)
It directly generates HCL gas on contact with methanol.

I added like 1L 50/50 azeotrope nitromethane/methanol.
Added little salt. it was generating methylamine but no bubbling like was with mercury.

With long strong ultrasound and iodine (also I added enough on the eye it was only test)

lol I am getting really high i cannot even get out of my word seems it's semi stereoselective I must test more.

 

[Jordan Belfort]

Bro where is your response now ?

It seems you are wrong, period.

 

[Jordan Belfort]

Reaction didnt proceed as should but was melt bmk not vacuüm you see yourself

Smell taste and fumes are good. But i must admit i doubt if Reaction proceeded before lye. But it uses non vacuum b I'm unsure if lye does electron transfer.

One thing is sure, under melting point of gallium it doesn't do shit even with iodine. Take information how you want

 

[Jordan Belfort]

Video now working

 

[Jordan Belfort]

The reaction with clear lye was good. Aluminum definitely reacted different then regular aluminum.

Taste test got me high again. Smells like an mercury base becore. Foto was starting bmk which was dark but clear.

Reaction mixture was 50/50 nitro/methanol like 100gr gallium chloride way way to much but it didn't start and enough foil for the solvent. Solvent was 0.003 so perhaps better use thin foil.
In order to start you must keep stirring and heat till 35 celcius then you see him going slowly.

Iodine was also added to get slow bubbling. Now be careful there wasn't much ketone or acetone group of the bmk to react with. Before was 400 GR Mercury on 10L b so again be careful once it's running better add slowly bmk.