DPIA inside my amphetamine - intentional?

[justfortemp]

Hello experienced chemists,

Im already a silent reader for some time here but decided to make an account as I do have a question.

Can someone please explain me how DPIA Di(beta-phenylisopropyl)amin finds its way into my amhetamine?
I test every amphetamine I receive from my source and the harm reduction laboratory regularly reports DPIA contamination inside the amphetamine.
Can someone tell me if this was put in intentional or how the DPIA come into existence? Maybe bad synthesis?


Thank you for your help

 

[G.Patton]

Hello, it's just a side product of the synthesis. Don't worry. I guess there is no more than couple presents of DPIA, am I right?

 

[justfortemp]

Hey G.Patton,

Thanks for your reply
Indeed, its only found inside but the amount is too low to determine.
However, what made me sceptical is that the purity decreased significantly over time.
We started at 70% purity and the last few batches all "only" scored 45-50%.
But no other psychoactive substances found.
So could it be that the source knows im testing it and mix it up with non active substances like mannitol that wont be detected by the laboratory. Or is it possible that a lower quality oil or a bad manufacturing process can lower the purity that much?Its probably hard to say, but would love to hear the view of an expert.

Does this side product of the synthesis (DPIA) means its not done good because it obviously must be avoidable as I had a lot of samples without it as well?

Thank you for your time to reply to my questions!

 

[UWe9o12jkied91d]

Hey G.Patton,

Thanks for your reply
Indeed, its only found inside but the amount is too low to determine.
However, what made me sceptical is that the purity decreased significantly over time.
We started at 70% purity and the last few batches all "only" scored 45-50%.
But no other psychoactive substances found.
So could it be that the source knows im testing it and mix it up with non active substances like mannitol that wont be detected by the laboratory. Or is it possible that a lower quality oil or a bad manufacturing process can lower the purity that much?Its probably hard to say, but would love to hear the view of an expert.

Does this side product of the synthesis (DPIA) means its not done good because it obviously must be avoidable as I had a lot of samples without it as well?

Thank you for your time to reply to my questions!

justfortempWere inactive ingredients also characterized? I'm wondering what the rest of 30% to 100% is

 

[PNicole]

Amphetamine salts are notoriously unstable and go bad pretty fast. Even pharmaceutical preparation using pure pharmaceutical ingredients can have this problem.

Or is it possible that a lower quality oil or a bad manufacturing process can lower the purity that much?Its probably hard to say, but would love to hear the view of an expert.

Yes. Purity can vary greatly. Any residual byproducts can cause lower quality and sometimes dramatically. That last step of titrating with sulfuric acid can a killer. Also the typical reaction done with Al/Hg is messy and can leave many salts behind. LAH reaction is cleaner but I am not sure if many utilize it. I have seen samples (beautiful white and crystalline) testing at various purities. The only variable was the operator's execution of the reaction.

I have never understood why anyone uses amphetamine over racemic methamphetamine and why it more pppular in Europe.

 

[OrgUnikum]

Amphetamine salts are notoriously unstable and go bad pretty fast. Even pharmaceutical preparation using pure pharmaceutical ingredients can have this problem.

Or is it possible that a lower quality oil or a bad manufacturing process can lower the purity that much?Its probably hard to say, but would love to hear the view of an expert.

Yes. Purity can vary greatly. Any residual byproducts can cause lower quality and sometimes dramatically. That last step of titrating with sulfuric acid can a killer. Also the typical reaction done with Al/Hg is messy and can leave many salts behind. LAH reaction is cleaner but I am not sure if many utilize it. I have seen samples (beautiful white and crystalline) testing at various purities. The only variable was the operator's execution of the reaction.

I have never understood why anyone uses amphetamine over racemic methamphetamine and why it more pppular in Europe.

PNicole

Yes. Purity can vary greatly. Any residual byproducts can cause lower quality and sometimes dramatically. That last step of titrating with sulfuric acid can a killer. Also the typical reaction done with Al/Hg is messy and can leave many salts behind. LAH reaction is cleaner but I am not sure if many utilize it.

Actually Leuckart has the most impurities, Hydride reductions and hydrogenations are also not clean from the pot, Al/Hg in special with steamdistillation is astonishing low on byproducts and meth from pharmaceutical grade ephedrine by Rp/I is best by far (comes from the last step destroying starting compound and intermediates). Oh! An so applyable reductions with Na-metal are quite good too.
Surprising - yes. But true.
I am only talking about active impurities as thats the only ones which count. Inactive impurities can be regarded as filler.

I have never understood why anyone uses amphetamine over racemic methamphetamine and why it more pppular in Europe.

It is because Amphetamine is a tool but Meth is a lifestyle. This comes by the differing duration, it is easier to stay sane with a drug acting 8 to 10 hours then with one active for two days or more as the latter turns you into a tweaker in no time.

 

[justfortemp]

@UWe9o12jkied91d
Unfortunately not, they only checked for psychoactive substances.

@PNicole thank you for your response.

 

[OrgUnikum]

Hello experienced chemists,

Im already a silent reader for some time here but decided to make an account as I do have a question.

Can someone please explain me how DPIA Di(beta-phenylisopropyl)amin finds its way into my amhetamine?
I test every amphetamine I receive from my source and the harm reduction laboratory regularly reports DPIA contamination inside the amphetamine.
Can someone tell me if this was put in intentional or how the DPIA come into existence? Maybe bad synthesis?


Thank you for your help

justfortempIt is the result of Amphetamine, a primary Amine, reacting with P2P the Ketone. This happens a lot as the Amphetamine is more attractive to the Ketone then Ammonia is. A correctly done steamdistillation (NOT blowing everything over at 150 °C!) or fractional (vacuum) distillation would take care of this, but it is rarely done. This because DIPA and related impurities are highly active and long lasting and the customers think the Amph is stronger and such better whilst it has just impurities which strongly act on the nor-adrenaline system. The very long duration makes comedown a lot harder too. DIPA is bad news if you are after CNS stimulation and Euphoria and less after too much espresso like effects. Besides customers it is of course the cooks always looking for shortcuts and not taking pride in their product but deluding themselves. One would think if you are cooking multi-kg batches that you could afford real analysis? Nut no, they could afford it, but they do not really want to know for good reason.