G.Patton@G.Patton This can be groundbreaking for our lab as we work with exactly those chemicals already and have build our supply chain around this route, are there more information available on this route?
If the yield & timeframe described is realistic we think this route can prouce amphetamines much faster than the One-pot amphetamine synthesis from P2NP with NaBH4/CuCl2 (1kg scale)
While there are forum members that have executed the route with loads of 1kg - 2kg we are working with 500g of P2NP each load, within a 20L reactor. With this technique we can achieve completing two loads á 500g within 10h (including preperation and cleaning of equipment).
Assuming this new route can achieve handling 15kg of P2NP (Theory: 15kg of P2NP equals 13.275L of freebase, equals 9.558kg of Sulphate) within 33.5h this means that this route will produce 1L of freebase in 22.33% of the time we are taking with the other route and 500g loads, in other words you can say this route is 4.47 times faster than the route for the smaller scale.
If one would be able to load 2kg of P2NP at once using the One-pot amphetamine synthesis from P2NP with NaBH4/CuCl2 (1kg scale) within 6 hours (completion of synthesis), which is now just an estimation, the above described route would still just take 74.44% of the time needed via the One-pot amphetamine synthesis from P2NP with NaBH4/CuCl2 (1kg scale).
To visualize this: Within 20 days work (team of multiple people) the above meantioned route can produce 79.25 of freebase (64.47kg of Sulphate) with one 100L reactor whereas a 20L reactor that's being loaded twice a day (500g loads) would only produce 17.7L of freebase (14.4kf of Sulphate) in the same time.
(I am calculating this for a 20L reactor because this is what I am using and also around the scale many others on the forum are using)
Again, I think this is a ground breaking route and it can help bringing the amphetamine manufacturers from this forum to new heights just for the economical benefits this route brings!
Anyway, there are some missing information for chemist noobs like me
Also, contrary to the other route there will be no DH2O used here?
If yes, what is the ideal quantity to add?
What is the recommended amount?
Thanks in advance for providing this route!
Greets from hell,
Gordon
If the yield & timeframe described is realistic we think this route can prouce amphetamines much faster than the One-pot amphetamine synthesis from P2NP with NaBH4/CuCl2 (1kg scale)
While there are forum members that have executed the route with loads of 1kg - 2kg we are working with 500g of P2NP each load, within a 20L reactor. With this technique we can achieve completing two loads á 500g within 10h (including preperation and cleaning of equipment).
Assuming this new route can achieve handling 15kg of P2NP (Theory: 15kg of P2NP equals 13.275L of freebase, equals 9.558kg of Sulphate) within 33.5h this means that this route will produce 1L of freebase in 22.33% of the time we are taking with the other route and 500g loads, in other words you can say this route is 4.47 times faster than the route for the smaller scale.
If one would be able to load 2kg of P2NP at once using the One-pot amphetamine synthesis from P2NP with NaBH4/CuCl2 (1kg scale) within 6 hours (completion of synthesis), which is now just an estimation, the above described route would still just take 74.44% of the time needed via the One-pot amphetamine synthesis from P2NP with NaBH4/CuCl2 (1kg scale).
To visualize this: Within 20 days work (team of multiple people) the above meantioned route can produce 79.25 of freebase (64.47kg of Sulphate) with one 100L reactor whereas a 20L reactor that's being loaded twice a day (500g loads) would only produce 17.7L of freebase (14.4kf of Sulphate) in the same time.
(I am calculating this for a 20L reactor because this is what I am using and also around the scale many others on the forum are using)
Again, I think this is a ground breaking route and it can help bringing the amphetamine manufacturers from this forum to new heights just for the economical benefits this route brings!
Anyway, there are some missing information for chemist noobs like me
Is there info on the quantity of IPA?
Also, contrary to the other route there will be no DH2O used here?
Will the ratio of P2NP:NaBH4 be the same from the One pot synthesis via P2NP, NaBH4, CuCL2? This ratio would be 1:1.739 kg
Will the ratio be that same? 0.105kg of CuCL2 dissolved in XX liter of DH2O for every kilo of P2NP?
Will this step be done through the addition of a 25% NaOH solution?
If yes, what is the ideal quantity to add?
We assume this will be done with an appropriate amount of IPA, same as the other route.
What is the recommended amount?
This part is clear, obviously
Thanks in advance for providing this route!
Greets from hell,
Gordon
- By OrgUnikum
@G.Patton This can be groundbreaking for our lab as we work with exactly those chemicals already and have build our supply chain around this route, are there more information available on this route?
If the yield & timeframe described is realistic we think this route can prouce amphetamines much faster than the One-pot amphetamine synthesis from P2NP with NaBH4/CuCl2 (1kg scale)
While there are forum members that have executed the route with loads of 1kg - 2kg we are working with 500g of P2NP each load, within a 20L reactor. With this technique we can achieve completing two loads á 500g within 10h (including preperation and cleaning of equipment).
Assuming this new route can achieve handling 15kg of P2NP (Theory: 15kg of P2NP equals 13.275L of freebase, equals 9.558kg of Sulphate) within 33.5h this means that this route will produce 1L of freebase in 22.33% of the time we are taking with the other route and 500g loads, in other words you can say this route is 4.47 times faster than the route for the smaller scale.
If one would be able to load 2kg of P2NP at once using the One-pot amphetamine synthesis from P2NP with NaBH4/CuCl2 (1kg scale) within 6 hours (completion of synthesis), which is now just an estimation, the above described route would still just take 74.44% of the time needed via the One-pot amphetamine synthesis from P2NP with NaBH4/CuCl2 (1kg scale).
To visualize this: Within 20 days work (team of multiple people) the above meantioned route can produce 79.25 of freebase (64.47kg of Sulphate) with one 100L reactor whereas a 20L reactor that's being loaded twice a day (500g loads) would only produce 17.7L of freebase (14.4kf of Sulphate) in the same time.
(I am calculating this for a 20L reactor because this is what I am using and also around the scale many others on the forum are using)
Again, I think this is a ground breaking route and it can help bringing the amphetamine manufacturers from this forum to new heights just for the economical benefits this route brings!
Anyway, there are some missing information for chemist noobs like me
Is there info on the quantity of IPA?
Also, contrary to the other route there will be no DH2O used here?
Will the ratio of P2NP:NaBH4 be the same from the One pot synthesis via P2NP, NaBH4, CuCL2? This ratio would be 1:1.739 kg
Will the ratio be that same? 0.105kg of CuCL2 dissolved in XX liter of DH2O for every kilo of P2NP?
Will this step be done through the addition of a 25% NaOH solution?
If yes, what is the ideal quantity to add?
We assume this will be done with an appropriate amount of IPA, same as the other route.
What is the recommended amount?
This part is clear, obviously
Thanks in advance for providing this route!
Greets from hell,
Gordon
That would be at 100% yield whats unrealistic. But with 70% yield you still have 12 kg Sulfate and I believe 70% should be in reach.
- By G.Patton
@G.Patton This can be groundbreaking for our lab as we work with exactly those chemicals already and have build our supply chain around this route, are there more information available on this route?
If the yield & timeframe described is realistic we think this route can prouce amphetamines much faster than the One-pot amphetamine synthesis from P2NP with NaBH4/CuCl2 (1kg scale)
While there are forum members that have executed the route with loads of 1kg - 2kg we are working with 500g of P2NP each load, within a 20L reactor. With this technique we can achieve completing two loads á 500g within 10h (including preperation and cleaning of equipment).
Assuming this new route can achieve handling 15kg of P2NP (Theory: 15kg of P2NP equals 13.275L of freebase, equals 9.558kg of Sulphate) within 33.5h this means that this route will produce 1L of freebase in 22.33% of the time we are taking with the other route and 500g loads, in other words you can say this route is 4.47 times faster than the route for the smaller scale.
If one would be able to load 2kg of P2NP at once using the One-pot amphetamine synthesis from P2NP with NaBH4/CuCl2 (1kg scale) within 6 hours (completion of synthesis), which is now just an estimation, the above described route would still just take 74.44% of the time needed via the One-pot amphetamine synthesis from P2NP with NaBH4/CuCl2 (1kg scale).
To visualize this: Within 20 days work (team of multiple people) the above meantioned route can produce 79.25 of freebase (64.47kg of Sulphate) with one 100L reactor whereas a 20L reactor that's being loaded twice a day (500g loads) would only produce 17.7L of freebase (14.4kf of Sulphate) in the same time.
(I am calculating this for a 20L reactor because this is what I am using and also around the scale many others on the forum are using)
Again, I think this is a ground breaking route and it can help bringing the amphetamine manufacturers from this forum to new heights just for the economical benefits this route brings!
Anyway, there are some missing information for chemist noobs like me
Is there info on the quantity of IPA?
Also, contrary to the other route there will be no DH2O used here?
Will the ratio of P2NP:NaBH4 be the same from the One pot synthesis via P2NP, NaBH4, CuCL2? This ratio would be 1:1.739 kg
Will the ratio be that same? 0.105kg of CuCL2 dissolved in XX liter of DH2O for every kilo of P2NP?
Will this step be done through the addition of a 25% NaOH solution?
If yes, what is the ideal quantity to add?
We assume this will be done with an appropriate amount of IPA, same as the other route.
What is the recommended amount?
This part is clear, obviously
Thanks in advance for providing this route!
Greets from hell,
Gordon
I can't answer you for sure. You have to adjust this synthesis on the spot. I think not less than 50 L of IPA/Water mixture. And yes, it's worth to use distilled water but you can use filtered tap water also.
Yes and for other reagents as well.
I think about 20L
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Gordon Ramsayyes i search all night… i find BMK and hydrolize him ( p2np in this case coast about 120 $ ) and find NaBH4 for price 30-60 € per 1 kg … 
now must only figure how much reagens to put in 100L reactor… is no same calculation like work with 1 kg p2np…
lalosalamanca84I think you can just go with this route:
It is possible to carry out 50% of this scale in a 20L reactor, therefore it should be possible to load 2.5kg of P2NP in a 100L reactor. You can simply scale the reagents of this route by a factor of 2.5 but this route is necessarily not the best for a 100L reactor though.
The route meantioned here in the main post probably works but there is some information missing.
Working with other routes will give you a better yield for sure, I think it can be possible to create 10-20kg Sulphate in a 100L reactor, when using the correct route for a large scale.
lalosalamanca84You can use the link I have sent you and multiply it by 2.5 if you are skilled with this synthesis Means you'd be using 2.5Kg of p2np instead of 1kg and scale all other reagents in the same ratio.
It you lack propper cooling it would be recommended to load a maximum of 2kg of P2NP I guess as the reaction can expand quite heavy I think
You are not correct
The price for P2NP can be between 80 - 250EUR depending on the quantity.
Also NaBH4 can be purchased for 50 - 125EUR easily in europe
The cost for a liter of freebase can be between 250 - 500 EUR if done right
now must only figure how much reagens to put in 100L reactor… is no same calculation like work with 1 kg p2np…
yes i search all night… i find BMK and hydrolize him ( p2np in this case coast about 120 $ ) and find NaBH4 for price 30-60 € per 1 kg …
It is possible to carry out 50% of this scale in a 20L reactor, therefore it should be possible to load 2.5kg of P2NP in a 100L reactor. You can simply scale the reagents of this route by a factor of 2.5 but this route is necessarily not the best for a 100L reactor though.
The route meantioned here in the main post probably works but there is some information missing.
Working with other routes will give you a better yield for sure, I think it can be possible to create 10-20kg Sulphate in a 100L reactor, when using the correct route for a large scale.
Gordon Ramsayyes understand I no expect strictly 10 kg… i only want make maximum possible on 100 L reactor ( if this be 2 liter freebase is ok,if can be 5-6 super ) only calculation for reactor 100 L i need
yes understand I no expect strictly 10 kg… i only want make maximum possible on 100 L reactor ( if this be 2 liter freebase is ok,if can be 5-6 super ) only calculation for reactor 100 L i need
Means you'd be using 2.5Kg of p2np instead of 1kg and scale all other reagents in the same ratio.It you lack propper cooling it would be recommended to load a maximum of 2kg of P2NP I guess as the reaction can expand quite heavy I think