Strange cut in my amphetamine. How to better get rid of it without acid-based extraction? How to properly evapourate water solution of amph?

[faelivrin42]

Hey. I have no chemical background and no place with good ventilation, so I'm afraid of using any substances you shouldn't use in your kitchen.
I'm just a curious amphetamine lover, and usually I did a simple acetone or isopropyl alcohol wash, a couple of times I did recrystallization using hot isopropyl alcohol, and I was fine. But recently almost all speed I got started having a cut which doesn't go out with this.

It's something like cellulose, but I don't know. If I add a very little water to the sample of substance, it becomes jelly. If I add more water, it just dissolves.
0.44 micron wheel filter doesn't help to filter it out from the water solution. If you dissolve it in hot water and then cool, it forms shiny fibers, which when dried are very very soft, almost like silk. Their appearance resembles caffeine, but it's likely not caffeine - I tested it with povidone-iodine solution mixed with starch until it has dark blue-violet color, and it doesn't change the color of the solution at all (I used freshly made coffee as a control), and one of the samples containing it was sent to Energy Control, and they didn't find caffeine there, and whatever the cut is, it isn't in the list of substance they identify.

So. I had a sample of speed paste. There likely were some amphetamine in it, because Marquis turned orange and Robadope pink.
When I added a drop of water to the small amount of substance, it turned cloudy and then became jelly-like substance.

Initially I tried to recrystallize it using isopropyl alcohol. It dissolves in boiling iso completely, but when I started cooling it, it became all jelly with the fibers, so this didn't work, I couldn't filter amphetamine out of it. After some googling I read about water extraction.

So I did the following:
1. I put 1g of the given substance in coffee filter, and started poring hot water on it slowly, until everything was dissolved
2. Then I put the solution in the fridge, and got this fibers, so many that solution became creamy

3. I filtered solution with coffee filter again, and squeezed everything I could from the fiber
4. Then I put the resulted solution in the glass, and evapourated it using water bath
5. The result didn't look uniform, and gave dark brown, almost black, with Mecke reagent. So I decided to do recrystallization.

6. I added iso to the glass with substance, and made it boil on a water bath. After a while there was some sediment left, something that doesn't dissolve even in boiling iso. I poured hot solution into another glass, leaving some shiny translucent shards that didn't dissolve.

7. I let the solution cool on the table to room temperature, than put it in the fridge overnight. In the morning I let it sit in an ice bath for some time, and then filtered with coffee filter. It resulted in 0.03g of amphetamine sulfate (I did colorimetric tests, and got expected results with Mandelin, Marquis and Mecke)
8. From the curiosity I evaporated part of the filtered iso, and let it cool. and got this goddamn jelly substance again.
So it was obvious that the procedure I performed didn't really helped with it, and it still can be left in the clean substance

Questions:

1. What is this cut? I found various mentions of the similar things on reddit and dread, so it's pretty common
2. Is it possible to effectively get rid of it?
3. Despite this speed paste was definitely shitty, I doubt it was only 0.03% of amphetamine sulfate in it. So probably I did something wrong with evapouration and recrystallization. How can I do better?

 

[faelivrin42]

Some more detailed questions
- If I assemble a simple distillation unit (flask with rubber cork + rubber pipe), will it be better in terms of getting dry speed sulfate speed out of water solution?
- I know that for recrystallization its important to use the minimum possible amount of the solvent. But if unsoluble impurites are present, it's hard to determine the minimum amount. In case of amphetamine sulfate and isopropyl alcohol, how can I estimate the amount of isopropyl alcohol needed? I tried to google amphetamine sulfate's solubility in hot isopropyl alcohol but haven't succeed
- Is using acetone + isopropyl alcohol better for recrystallization of amphetamine sulfate than using just isopropyl alcohol? Why?
- Some recrystallization guides mention its important to cover the top of the glass with solution, why is it important? To make cooling slower? I thought amphetamine sulfate can't evaporate, is it right?
- Some recrystallization guides propose putting solution to the freezer overnight, is it a good idea? Won't other impurities crystallize as well then?
- If I used too much isopropyl alcohol, can I boil it to reduce its volume after I filtered out crystallized amphetamine and repeat the recrystallization procedure?
- Is suction filtering more efficient or just quicker than simply pouring a liquid onto the filter? Can I use simple electric pump I normally use for matress as a suction unit? (it has the option of suction)

 

[blackburn]

Hey. I have no chemical background and no place with good ventilation, so I'm afraid of using any substances you shouldn't use in your kitchen.
I'm just a curious amphetamine lover, and usually I did a simple acetone or isopropyl alcohol wash, a couple of times I did recrystallization using hot isopropyl alcohol, and I was fine. But recently almost all speed I got started having a cut which doesn't go out with this.

It's something like cellulose, but I don't know. If I add a very little water to the sample of substance, it becomes jelly. If I add more water, it just dissolves.
0.44 micron wheel filter doesn't help to filter it out from the water solution. If you dissolve it in hot water and then cool, it forms shiny fibers, which when dried are very very soft, almost like silk. Their appearance resembles caffeine, but it's likely not caffeine - I tested it with povidone-iodine solution mixed with starch until it has dark blue-violet color, and it doesn't change the color of the solution at all (I used freshly made coffee as a control), and one of the samples containing it was sent to Energy Control, and they didn't find caffeine there, and whatever the cut is, it isn't in the list of substance they identify.

So. I had a sample of speed paste. There likely were some amphetamine in it, because Marquis turned orange and Robadope pink.
When I added a drop of water to the small amount of substance, it turned cloudy and then became jelly-like substance.

View attachment 12324

Initially I tried to recrystallize it using isopropyl alcohol. It dissolves in boiling iso completely, but when I started cooling it, it became all jelly with the fibers, so this didn't work, I couldn't filter amphetamine out of it. After some googling I read about water extraction.

So I did the following:
1. I put 1g of the given substance in coffee filter, and started poring hot water on it slowly, until everything was dissolved
2. Then I put the solution in the fridge, and got this fibers, so many that solution became creamy
View attachment 12325 View attachment 12326 View attachment 12330

3. I filtered solution with coffee filter again, and squeezed everything I could from the fiber
4. Then I put the resulted solution in the glass, and evapourated it using water bath
5. The result didn't look uniform, and gave dark brown, almost black, with Mecke reagent. So I decided to do recrystallization.
View attachment 12327
6. I added iso to the glass with substance, and made it boil on a water bath. After a while there was some sediment left, something that doesn't dissolve even in boiling iso. I poured hot solution into another glass, leaving some shiny translucent shards that didn't dissolve.
View attachment 12328 View attachment 12329
7. I let the solution cool on the table to room temperature, than put it in the fridge overnight. In the morning I let it sit in an ice bath for some time, and then filtered with coffee filter. It resulted in 0.03g of amphetamine sulfate (I did colorimetric tests, and got expected results with Mandelin, Marquis and Mecke)
8. From the curiosity I evaporated part of the filtered iso, and let it cool. and got this goddamn jelly substance again.
So it was obvious that the procedure I performed didn't really helped with it, and it still can be left in the clean substance

Questions:

1. What is this cut? I found various mentions of the similar things on reddit and dread, so it's pretty common
2. Is it possible to effectively get rid of it?
3. Despite this speed paste was definitely shitty, I doubt it was only 0.03% of amphetamine sulfate in it. So probably I did something wrong with evapouration and recrystallization. How can I do better?

faelivrin42the best thing you can do is purify it with acetone which you have already tried, if that doesn't work then you get purification by acid-base extraction, it doesn't take much and is very simple..

 

[feinkostParanoia]

hello,
I can say with me it is almost like with you, I was always a curious amphetamine lover, and opened thereby unfortunately "the box of Pandora".
so i started to purify my amphetamine in a simple but very effective way before using it.
it became clear that nowhere is more dirt mixed in than in amphetamine, the imagination has no limits!
so now to your described problem;
I think you are correct in your assumption that your amphetamine has some kind of cellulose in it.
I had the same problem in the past, it looked exactly the same as in your pictures. it will have been croscarmellose or another vegetable fiber, bamboo fibers from the food industry are often used.
the creamy stuff you describe in point 2 is often a mixture of caffeine and some kind of fibers or cellulose.
the only strange thing is that you didn't find any caffeine in your stuff. normally, caffeine looks like it does in your fourth picture(so these absorbent cotton like fiber tips), after it's been taken out of the amphetamine. in my case, anyway.
from experience I can tell you that it is quite possible that what you had contains only 0.03% amphetamine!
you say even the stuff was definitely bad, so best not buy anything more there, if it goes!
i have always proceeded as follows to get rid of synthesis residues and especially caffeine:
the amphetamine must be really dry and finely crushed!!!
wash the amphetamine with anhydrous acetone and then put the whole thing in a caffe filter and let it dry.
after drying and crush well again.
now I have boiling distilled water drop by drop on daas amphetamine given until it has dissolved.
(so almost everything like you!!!!)
cover the amphetamine dissolved in the distilled water and put it in the fridge for 2-3 hours.
then put everything in a coffee filter (better if you take two, moisten them with distilled water beforehand) and squeeze them out carefully! I then always let the whole thing evaporate and got really clean amphetamine.

 

[ACAB]

-Dissolve your stuff in water, anything that doesn't dissolve = scrap.
-Determine the PH value. Anything above PH 4 add 1 drop of hydrochloric acid.
-Add petroleum ether same amount as water.
-Place everything in a separating funnel and shake very well.
-Drain the lower aqua layer.
-The petroleum ether (upper layer) can be used more often for purification.
-Slowly add NaOH while stirring until ph 14. granules or previously prepared lye. An oily layer is formed. Amp base
-Separate the two layers with a separating funnel.
-Add the same amount of petroleum ether to the upper amp base and shake it in the separating funnel.
-Drain off any lower layer (water).
-Add a little MgSO4 until it no longer clumps.
-Submerge the solution in an icebox for 3 hours
-Filter off MgSO4.
-Petroleum ether evaporate at 40°C.
-Dissolve the oily base which remains in acetone.
-Slowly add sulfuric acid diluted with acetone until PH6.
-Filter the amp salt

If discoloration is still visible, wash with ice-cold acetone and filter again until snow-white.

The result is very very pure product.

 

[cubesquare]

I have been playing with this same problem too, but in larger volumes and longer times, just to see what happens.

I washed my amphetamine with 99.9% IPA thoroughly, then dried it and took it to water solution.
I have put much more water (the flask is 1 liter) and used about 20g of "amphetamine".
This stops the "jelly" from forming.

I heated distilled water in the microwave and added substance until it no longer solved, then I set it aside and have left it to cool slowly without movement. This formation looks like caffeine to me.

Once I am happy that growth has stopped, I will filter and evaporate and see what I have left and what I can deduce from it...

 

[blackburn]

I have been playing with this same problem too, but in larger volumes and longer times, just to see what happens.

I washed my amphetamine with 99.9% IPA thoroughly, then dried it and took it to water solution.
I have put much more water (the flask is 1 liter) and used about 20g of "amphetamine".
This stops the "jelly" from forming.

I heated distilled water in the microwave and added substance until it no longer solved, then I set it aside and have left it to cool slowly without movement. This formation looks like caffeine to me.
View attachment 25036

View attachment 25037
Once I am happy that growth has stopped, I will filter and evaporate and see what I have left and what I can deduce from it...

cubesquareYes this is cause of caffeine.