Experimental section. The synthesis of the Amphetamine sulphate using P2P with ammonium formate and reduction with Mg

GhostChemist

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The reactions proceed according to Scheme 1.
UR2rlu45es

Scheme 1

Starting reagents and materials


  • 5 g purified P2P (P2P obtained through the reduction of P2NP with sodium borohydride)
  • 4.1 g Mg
  • 30 г HCOONH4
  • 10-15 ml H2O
  • 50 ml EtOH 88%
  • 30 ml HAc
  • 100-150 ml DCM
  • 5+5 ml Ethyl acetate
  • 2-3 mL of concentrated sulfuric acid (83%)
  • pH indicator paper
  • 2 liters of technical-grade cold water
  • 20-30 g of anhydrous sodium sulfate
  • 50 mL of 25% NaOH (sodium hydroxide)
  • 500 mL and 250 mL flasks
  • Reflux condenser
  • Separatory funnel
  • Filter paper
  • Funnels
  • Beakers
  • Heater



In Figure 1, the starting components are presented.
WrflPY2t7m

Figure 1

P2P is placed into a 1 L flask along with ammonium formate and ethanol, and the mixture is well stirred. Figure 2

RInLKsDOkH

Figure 2

Mg is added to the obtained mixture. The reaction starts almost immediately. Figure 3
0fjpUoK6WX

Figure 3

During the reaction, 5 mL of acetic acid (HAc) is added. Figure 4
DhsIwQ6JBx

Figure 4

The reaction proceeds quite vigorously; the flask needs to be cooled by placing it in an ice bath. Figure 5
0K5DQUNhbu

Figure 5

The reaction is completely finished within 30-40 minutes. Figure 6
DeA0JPM1aw

Figure 6

After the reaction is complete, the mixture is filtered. Figure 7
B4TpdEWo2S

Figure 7


After filtering, the paper filter is rinsed with 15-25 mL of acetic acid. Figure 8
IVHCGN6Kwt

Figure 8

50-70 mL of DCM is added to the filtrate for the extraction of the amine. Figure 9
SHLaXPE7fu

Figure 9


Next, a 25% aqueous solution of NaOH is added until the pH reaches 8-10. During this process, a white precipitate of magnesium hydroxide will form, accompanied by the release of the amphetamine as a free base, characterized by a distinctive pleasant odor. Figure 10
Q3cjN6JeSB

Figure 10


The amphetamine free base from RM is further extracted with several portions of DCM. Figure 11
W1XNoaO87y

Figure 11


The extract in DCM is dried with anhydrous sodium sulfate. Figure 12
5ZrLRqkbMj

Figure 12

The DCM is distilled off. Figure 13
RiqXyIsGex

Figure 13

After DCM distilled off, the flask contains the oil of the amphetamine free base. Figure 14

J1C2l9VqHF

Figure 14

The amine free base is transferred to a glass beaker, and the residues in the flask are washed with 5 mL of ethyl acetate. Figure 15
3HALQ0olv5

Figure 15

Sulfuric acid is added to the amphetamine free base solution in ethyl acetate until the pH 7. A precipitate of amphetamine sulfate is forms. Figure 16
RA7iuMlD0z

Figure 16

The precipitate of amphetamine sulfate is filtered through a paper filter and washed with 5 mL of ethyl acetate. Figure 17

J5F3wl70LV

Figure 17


The precipitate is air-dried. Figure 18
AtbxPFYXS5

Figure 18

The yield of amphetamine sulfate was 1.17 g or 17%. Figure 19
BVkHvL79Of

Figure 19



Conclusions and Recommendations

  • The method is relatively simple for synthesizing the amine from P2P and ammonium formate through magnesium metal reduction.
  • The method is suitable for scaling up by adding magnesium metal in portions to the reaction mass.
  • A drawback of the method is the product yield of 17%.
 

btcboss2022

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The reactions proceed according to Scheme 1.
View attachment 25621
Scheme 1

Starting reagents and materials


  • 5 g purified P2P (P2P obtained through the reduction of P2NP with sodium borohydride)
  • 4.1 g Mg
  • 30 г HCOONH4
  • 10-15 ml H2O
  • 50 ml EtOH 88%
  • 30 ml HAc
  • 100-150 ml DCM
  • 5+5 ml Ethyl acetate
  • 2-3 mL of concentrated sulfuric acid (83%)
  • pH indicator paper
  • 2 liters of technical-grade cold water
  • 20-30 g of anhydrous sodium sulfate
  • 50 mL of 25% NaOH (sodium hydroxide)
  • 500 mL and 250 mL flasks
  • Reflux condenser
  • Separatory funnel
  • Filter paper
  • Funnels
  • Beakers
  • Heater



In Figure 1, the starting components are presented.
View attachment 25622

Figure 1

P2P is placed into a 1 L flask along with ammonium formate and ethanol, and the mixture is well stirred. Figure 2
View attachment 25623
Figure 2

Mg is added to the obtained mixture. The reaction starts almost immediately. Figure 3
View attachment 25624
Figure 3

During the reaction, 5 mL of acetic acid (HAc) is added. Figure 4
View attachment 25625
Figure 4

The reaction proceeds quite vigorously; the flask needs to be cooled by placing it in an ice bath. Figure 5
View attachment 25626

Figure 5

The reaction is completely finished within 30-40 minutes. Figure 6
View attachment 25627

Figure 6

After the reaction is complete, the mixture is filtered. Figure 7
View attachment 25628
Figure 7


After filtering, the paper filter is rinsed with 15-25 mL of acetic acid. Figure 8
View attachment 25629
Figure 8

50-70 mL of DCM is added to the filtrate for the extraction of the amine. Figure 9
View attachment 25630

Figure 9


Next, a 25% aqueous solution of NaOH is added until the pH reaches 8-10. During this process, a white precipitate of magnesium hydroxide will form, accompanied by the release of the amphetamine as a free base, characterized by a distinctive pleasant odor. Figure 10
View attachment 25631
Figure 10


The amphetamine free base from RM is further extracted with several portions of DCM. Figure 11
View attachment 25632
Figure 11


The extract in DCM is dried with anhydrous sodium sulfate. Figure 12
View attachment 25633

Figure 12

The DCM is distilled off. Figure 13
View attachment 25634

Figure 13

After DCM distilled off, the flask contains the oil of the amphetamine free base. Figure 14
View attachment 25635
Figure 14

The amine free base is transferred to a glass beaker, and the residues in the flask are washed with 5 mL of ethyl acetate. Figure 15
View attachment 25636
Figure 15

Sulfuric acid is added to the amphetamine free base solution in ethyl acetate until the pH 7. A precipitate of amphetamine sulfate is forms. Figure 16
View attachment 25637
Figure 16

The precipitate of amphetamine sulfate is filtered through a paper filter and washed with 5 mL of ethyl acetate. Figure 17
View attachment 25638
Figure 17


The precipitate is air-dried. Figure 18
View attachment 25639
Figure 18

The yield of amphetamine sulfate was 1.17 g or 17%. Figure 19
View attachment 25640

Figure 19



Conclusions and Recommendations

  • The method is relatively simple for synthesizing the amine from P2P and ammonium formate through magnesium metal reduction.
  • The method is suitable for scaling up by adding magnesium metal in portions to the reaction mass.
  • A drawback of the method is the product yield of 17%.
GhostChemistCongratulations! If that method worked as you say could be posible to obtain meth replacing ammonium formate by Methylammonium Formate CAS 25596-28-5
I cant wait the moment to have free time to test it!
Could be very interesting and honestly chemically has all sense.
Thanks.
 

GhostChemist

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Congratulations! If that method worked as you say could be posible to obtain meth replacing ammonium formate by Methylammonium Formate CAS 25596-28-5
I cant wait the moment to have free time to test it!
Could be very interesting and honestly chemically has all sense.
Thanks.
btcboss2022Hi! Thanks!
Theoretically, everything should react similarly with methylamine formate.
However, it`s essential to consider that the fact acetates and formates of both ammonia and methylamine react differently under various conditions. Therefore, different co-products can be formed.
 

btcboss2022

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Hi! Thanks!
Theoretically, everything should react similarly with methylamine formate.
However, it`s essential to consider that the fact acetates and formates of both ammonia and methylamine react differently under various conditions. Therefore, different co-products can be formed.
GhostChemistAnyway I must try it no other way.
I will update once I test it and about yield I think I can give you some tips to improve it.
 

OrgUnikum

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Congratulations! If that method worked as you say could be posible to obtain meth replacing ammonium formate by Methylammonium Formate CAS 25596-28-5
I cant wait the moment to have free time to test it!
Could be very interesting and honestly chemically has all sense.
Thanks.
btcboss2022Using methylammonium formate will give much better yields but nothing what would compare to the known high yielding ways like Al/Hg or NaBH4.

The problem with amination by ammoniua or a salt of it is that the formed Amphetamine is much more reactive then the ammonia and it will grab all P2P and even kick ammonia off already formed Imine. This secondary Imine is then reduced to the Amine - Di-Alkylamphetamine. This is no fun, quite the opposite but it can be removed by steamdistilling the product.

As there was no steam or other distillation I can assure you the 17% product was mostly Di-Alkyl Amphetamine.

This problem does not exist with methylamine (or not so bad) as thats as strong a nukleophile as Amphetamine so if there is an excess MeNH2 its fine.

Mg is though a lousy reducing reagent for Imines. Use something else or get very unhappy. Seriously.
 

btcboss2022

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The reactions proceed according to Scheme 1.
View attachment 25621
Scheme 1

Starting reagents and materials


  • 5 g purified P2P (P2P obtained through the reduction of P2NP with sodium borohydride)
  • 4.1 g Mg
  • 30 г HCOONH4
  • 10-15 ml H2O
  • 50 ml EtOH 88%
  • 30 ml HAc
  • 100-150 ml DCM
  • 5+5 ml Ethyl acetate
  • 2-3 mL of concentrated sulfuric acid (83%)
  • pH indicator paper
  • 2 liters of technical-grade cold water
  • 20-30 g of anhydrous sodium sulfate
  • 50 mL of 25% NaOH (sodium hydroxide)
  • 500 mL and 250 mL flasks
  • Reflux condenser
  • Separatory funnel
  • Filter paper
  • Funnels
  • Beakers
  • Heater



In Figure 1, the starting components are presented.
View attachment 25622

Figure 1

P2P is placed into a 1 L flask along with ammonium formate and ethanol, and the mixture is well stirred. Figure 2
View attachment 25623
Figure 2

Mg is added to the obtained mixture. The reaction starts almost immediately. Figure 3
View attachment 25624
Figure 3

During the reaction, 5 mL of acetic acid (HAc) is added. Figure 4
View attachment 25625
Figure 4

The reaction proceeds quite vigorously; the flask needs to be cooled by placing it in an ice bath. Figure 5
View attachment 25626

Figure 5

The reaction is completely finished within 30-40 minutes. Figure 6
View attachment 25627

Figure 6

After the reaction is complete, the mixture is filtered. Figure 7
View attachment 25628
Figure 7


After filtering, the paper filter is rinsed with 15-25 mL of acetic acid. Figure 8
View attachment 25629
Figure 8

50-70 mL of DCM is added to the filtrate for the extraction of the amine. Figure 9
View attachment 25630

Figure 9


Next, a 25% aqueous solution of NaOH is added until the pH reaches 8-10. During this process, a white precipitate of magnesium hydroxide will form, accompanied by the release of the amphetamine as a free base, characterized by a distinctive pleasant odor. Figure 10
View attachment 25631
Figure 10


The amphetamine free base from RM is further extracted with several portions of DCM. Figure 11
View attachment 25632
Figure 11


The extract in DCM is dried with anhydrous sodium sulfate. Figure 12
View attachment 25633

Figure 12

The DCM is distilled off. Figure 13
View attachment 25634

Figure 13

After DCM distilled off, the flask contains the oil of the amphetamine free base. Figure 14
View attachment 25635
Figure 14

The amine free base is transferred to a glass beaker, and the residues in the flask are washed with 5 mL of ethyl acetate. Figure 15
View attachment 25636
Figure 15

Sulfuric acid is added to the amphetamine free base solution in ethyl acetate until the pH 7. A precipitate of amphetamine sulfate is forms. Figure 16
View attachment 25637
Figure 16

The precipitate of amphetamine sulfate is filtered through a paper filter and washed with 5 mL of ethyl acetate. Figure 17
View attachment 25638
Figure 17


The precipitate is air-dried. Figure 18
View attachment 25639
Figure 18

The yield of amphetamine sulfate was 1.17 g or 17%. Figure 19
View attachment 25640

Figure 19



Conclusions and Recommendations

  • The method is relatively simple for synthesizing the amine from P2P and ammonium formate through magnesium metal reduction.
  • The method is suitable for scaling up by adding magnesium metal in portions to the reaction mass.
  • A drawback of the method is the product yield of 17%.
GhostChemistDid you think in the possible option to use formic acid instead of acetic acid?
Thanks.
 

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The reactions proceed according to Scheme 1.
View attachment 25621
Scheme 1

Starting reagents and materials


  • 5 g purified P2P (P2P obtained through the reduction of P2NP with sodium borohydride)
  • 4.1 g Mg
  • 30 г HCOONH4
  • 10-15 ml H2O
  • 50 ml EtOH 88%
  • 30 ml HAc
  • 100-150 ml DCM
  • 5+5 ml Ethyl acetate
  • 2-3 mL of concentrated sulfuric acid (83%)
  • pH indicator paper
  • 2 liters of technical-grade cold water
  • 20-30 g of anhydrous sodium sulfate
  • 50 mL of 25% NaOH (sodium hydroxide)
  • 500 mL and 250 mL flasks
  • Reflux condenser
  • Separatory funnel
  • Filter paper
  • Funnels
  • Beakers
  • Heater



In Figure 1, the starting components are presented.
View attachment 25622

Figure 1

P2P is placed into a 1 L flask along with ammonium formate and ethanol, and the mixture is well stirred. Figure 2
View attachment 25623
Figure 2

Mg is added to the obtained mixture. The reaction starts almost immediately. Figure 3
View attachment 25624
Figure 3

During the reaction, 5 mL of acetic acid (HAc) is added. Figure 4
View attachment 25625
Figure 4

The reaction proceeds quite vigorously; the flask needs to be cooled by placing it in an ice bath. Figure 5
View attachment 25626

Figure 5

The reaction is completely finished within 30-40 minutes. Figure 6
View attachment 25627

Figure 6

After the reaction is complete, the mixture is filtered. Figure 7
View attachment 25628
Figure 7


After filtering, the paper filter is rinsed with 15-25 mL of acetic acid. Figure 8
View attachment 25629
Figure 8

50-70 mL of DCM is added to the filtrate for the extraction of the amine. Figure 9
View attachment 25630

Figure 9


Next, a 25% aqueous solution of NaOH is added until the pH reaches 8-10. During this process, a white precipitate of magnesium hydroxide will form, accompanied by the release of the amphetamine as a free base, characterized by a distinctive pleasant odor. Figure 10
View attachment 25631
Figure 10


The amphetamine free base from RM is further extracted with several portions of DCM. Figure 11
View attachment 25632
Figure 11


The extract in DCM is dried with anhydrous sodium sulfate. Figure 12
View attachment 25633

Figure 12

The DCM is distilled off. Figure 13
View attachment 25634

Figure 13

After DCM distilled off, the flask contains the oil of the amphetamine free base. Figure 14
View attachment 25635
Figure 14

The amine free base is transferred to a glass beaker, and the residues in the flask are washed with 5 mL of ethyl acetate. Figure 15
View attachment 25636
Figure 15

Sulfuric acid is added to the amphetamine free base solution in ethyl acetate until the pH 7. A precipitate of amphetamine sulfate is forms. Figure 16
View attachment 25637
Figure 16

The precipitate of amphetamine sulfate is filtered through a paper filter and washed with 5 mL of ethyl acetate. Figure 17
View attachment 25638
Figure 17


The precipitate is air-dried. Figure 18
View attachment 25639
Figure 18

The yield of amphetamine sulfate was 1.17 g or 17%. Figure 19
View attachment 25640

Figure 19



Conclusions and Recommendations

  • The method is relatively simple for synthesizing the amine from P2P and ammonium formate through magnesium metal reduction.
  • The method is suitable for scaling up by adding magnesium metal in portions to the reaction mass.
  • A drawback of the method is the product yield of 17%.
GhostChemistToday I synthesized (or at least tried, hahaha) my own methylammonium formate. At first glance, it seems to have turned out as it should, but I won't be able to confirm it 100% until tomorrow.
Tomorrow, I'll also receive the magnesium, and if the formate is what it's supposed to be, I'll test your synthesis by substituting ammonium formate with methylammonium formate and acetic acid with formic acid, all following your molar equivalences. I've been studying the reaction equation, and theoretically, it should gives Methamphetamine freebase(racemic) but we'll see the reality later. As we know, in these things, any small detail can completely change the final result. I'll keep you posted ;-)
 

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Today I synthesized (or at least tried, hahaha) my own methylammonium formate. At first glance, it seems to have turned out as it should, but I won't be able to confirm it 100% until tomorrow.
Tomorrow, I'll also receive the magnesium, and if the formate is what it's supposed to be, I'll test your synthesis by substituting ammonium formate with methylammonium formate and acetic acid with formic acid, all following your molar equivalences. I've been studying the reaction equation, and theoretically, it should gives Methamphetamine freebase(racemic) but we'll see the reality later. As we know, in these things, any small detail can completely change the final result. I'll keep you posted ;-)
btcboss2022I didnt obtained the proper product in the methylammonium formate synth 😭
Seems an easy reaction I must check what I did wrong and try it again.
 

btcboss2022

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I have been checking my methylammonium formate synth and I think I know what I did wrong. I hope have more news after new year eve.
 

loadingST

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What problem you think you observerd, i dont know how much is the temperature for NMF reduction before producing toxic gases but who who need reacmic methamp when you can do a leuckard and obtain double active isomers even throw you can separete the levo-amphetamine from the dextro one, and trust me the dextro-amphetamine is stronger than reacemic meth and less toxic by the way with the same crystal properties,able to smoke etc
 

OrgUnikum

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What problem you think you observerd, i dont know how much is the temperature for NMF reduction before producing toxic gases but who who need reacmic methamp when you can do a leuckard and obtain double active isomers even throw you can separete the levo-amphetamine from the dextro one, and trust me the dextro-amphetamine is stronger than reacemic meth and less toxic by the way with the same crystal properties,able to smoke etc
loadingST
double active isomers
what is this supposed to be?

Magnesium is just not a good metal for reductive aminations. Magnesium is great for Grignards and making Sodium metal. The Indian article this is based on is one of the worst examples og bullshit in chemistry, the do not even get the basic principles right, dissolving metal reactions are not catalytic. Those Indian articles have a purpose though, they provide protection against lawsuits regarding violation of patented IP and enabling India to produce the cheap generics the worlds health depends on.
If you look for high yielding reductive amination systems which actually work I suggest to look into SmI2, samarium di-iodide, samarium metal is not so expensive from Russia and I2 + Sm = SmI2.
For really high-yielding Amphetamine from P2P elevated pressure (15 bar +) Nickel (Raney and others, forget about homemade Urushibura) works well but needs quite some knowledge and equipment. Without pressure amination with benzylamine for the Imine followed by in situ reduction of this Imine and de-benzylation using a palladium based catalyst. This can be done as CTH with an internal hydrogen source and then no hydrogen gas is needed.

It is not that there are not viable possibilities, so why zombies like the Mg reduction are re-surrected, crap known not to work forever, I have no idea. I the longer runit also damages the reputation of the board and on the internet its reputation what decides who you are. Never providing the sources the methods were lifted from is another thing. It makes you look like a ripoff and it violates one of the oldest and most basic rules of the Internet: All information is to be free but credit must be given.
 
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