i have some questions about clandestine synthesis of amphetamine sulfate

[ymaaah]

Hi everyone, im new here and im a beginner so I have some stupid question, idk if someone ever asked them but anyway, lets begin !

it is better to have a elrlenmeyer and to heat on a hob, or a flat bottom flask and heat in a water bath? I think the flat bottom flask is better because there is more heating contact than erlenmeyer, im right?

this is my "setup"

a extractor hood like this is good?


I really need a condenser and others stuff? If I dont have, my yield will be less high isnt it?


Thanks for your answers !

 

[G.Patton]

or a flat bottom flask and heat in a water bath?

ymaaahYou have to use water bath only, a hob will spoil your reaction and flask.

I really need a condenser and others stuff?

Do you really think that we use it just for fun?

If I dont have, my yield will be less high isnt it?

you'll lost solvent, your reaction will be burned and you can be poisoned by solvent vapors

 

[ymaaah]

You have to use water bath only, a hob will spoil your reaction and flask.

Do you really think that we use it just for fun?

you'll lost solvent, your reaction will be burned and you can be poisoned by solvent vapors

G.PattonOkay, because I saw a synthesis of a man who used a hob to synthetize sulfate amphetamine

No I dont think that, I ask because I heard that it is not really necessary

I dont really understand when you mean "lost solvant", lost solvant by heating with no condenser? (and for the vapors I have the extractor hood)

If you want, I can post the synthesis of sulfate amph I have? Maybe you will more understand my questions idk

 

[G.Patton]

Okay, because I saw a synthesis of a man who used a hob to synthetize sulfate amphetamine

No I dont think that, I ask because I heard that it is not really necessary

ymaaahYou can do whatever you want but I'm sure that our method is better and works well. I tell you it in order to help with good yield and success. You can use pan with water as water bath.

lost solvant by heating with no condenser?

Exactly, reflux condenser collects solvent vapours and condensate them back into a reaction mixture.

If you want, I can post the synthesis of sulfate amph I have? Maybe you will more understand my questions idk

It's up to you

 

[ymaaah]

You can do whatever you want but I'm sure that our method is better and works well. I tell you it in order to help with good yield and success. You can use pan with water as water bath.

Exactly, reflux condenser collects solvent vapours and condensate them back into a reaction mixture.

It's up to you

G.PattonYeah, good stuff is better for the final product

yeah, so if solvent vapours are lost, the product will be less pure and with less yield is that right?

Yes, I have a link with the synthesis right now : https://www.coursehero.com/file/21677042/Amphetamine-Synthesis-Very-Easy-with-photos/

(the yield is 70% approximately)

 

[HairyPoppins]

Hi. I've done it that way twice, the first time went well, the 2nd was a disaster. you have to use the right thickness and size of foil and some kind of condenser (i used a funnel with a large cube of ice) If you are going to do it Id recommend starting the reaction outside then after the violent phase bring it back inside or have soda and spill supplies on hand. I didn't get near %70 and it wasn't a clean high either! The right equipment is so much more fulfilling though!

 

[ymaaah]

Hi. I've done it that way twice, the first time went well, the 2nd was a disaster. you have to use the right thickness and size of foil and some kind of condenser (i used a funnel with a large cube of ice) If you are going to do it Id recommend starting the reaction outside then after the violent phase bring it back inside or have soda and spill supplies on hand. I didn't get near %70 and it wasn't a clean high either! The right equipment is so much more fulfilling though!

HairyPoppinsHi man, what do you mean by disaster? For the foil I can buy foil shavings no? Okay for the condenser (its not very expensive) I will buy it when I will have some money ahah

Humm okay so I have to buy a hob, a hob like this works? To begin I mean

And when you mean violent phase, you mean the aluminium amalgam with mercury nitrate ect?

 

[UWe9o12jkied91d]

Hi. I've done it that way twice, the first time went well, the 2nd was a disaster. you have to use the right thickness and size of foil and some kind of condenser (i used a funnel with a large cube of ice) If you are going to do it Id recommend starting the reaction outside then after the violent phase bring it back inside or have soda and spill supplies on hand. I didn't get near %70 and it wasn't a clean high either! The right equipment is so much more fulfilling though!

HairyPoppinsFor purer product you need at the very least a very good acetone wash, a/b purification, distillation or something is ideal.I for one go for precipitating with l-tartaric acid, turn the tartrate into base again and precipitate with sulphuric, comes out super clean.

Hi man, what do you mean by disaster? For the foil I can buy foil shavings no? Okay for the condenser (its not very expensive) I will buy it when I will have some money ahah

Humm okay so I have to buy a hob, a hob like this works? To begin I mean View attachment 7685

And when you mean violent phase, you mean the aluminium amalgam with mercury nitrate ect?

He means when adding the p2np sol. to ready amalgam a large quantity of heat is generated, aswell as thermal expansion which can go out your condenser and everywhere on the floor/in the space.If aluminium is too fine reaction is way too violent.Look at patton's thread on d-amphetamine isolation, it has a part with sythesis by this route, it is good to follow.It proposes coffee grinder ground aluminium, with little strips even with 10g you risk a volcano if foil is too thin and short.But you will see, I'm willing to bet more than half of people doing this synthesis have had runaway reactions at least once.
That hob is fine, not ideal but it works, I have one too, you need to pair it with a thermometer to get your water bath right.But this sythesis with AlHg that you chose is doable without, just skip the reflux after adding p2np, let it react and fully cool, sieve and go from there, 60% yield is possible like this guaranteed.

 

[KokosDreams]

this is my "setup" View attachment 7682 a extractor hood like this is good?


I really need a condenser and others stuff? If I dont have, my yield will be less high isnt it?

ymaaahI would recommend to not do it in your kitchen if you plan to ever cook delicious food again there.

Get a working table, propper glassware and other heating sources than your stovetop.

The kitchen looks way too nice to ruin it with a chemical contamination.

 

[ymaaah]

For purer product you need at the very least a very good acetone wash, a/b purification, distillation or something is ideal.I for one go for precipitating with l-tartaric acid, turn the tartrate into base again and precipitate with sulphuric, comes out super clean.


He means when adding the p2np sol. to ready amalgam a large quantity of heat is generated, aswell as thermal expansion which can go out your condenser and everywhere on the floor/in the space.If aluminium is too fine reaction is way too violent.Look at patton's thread on d-amphetamine isolation, it has a part with sythesis by this route, it is good to follow.It proposes coffee grinder ground aluminium, with little strips even with 10g you risk a volcano if foil is too thin and short.But you will see, I'm willing to bet more than half of people doing this synthesis have had runaway reactions at least once.
That hob is fine, not ideal but it works, I have one too, you need to pair it with a thermometer to get your water bath right.But this sythesis with AlHg that you chose is doable without, just skip the reflux after adding p2np, let it react and fully cool, sieve and go from there, 60% yield is possible like this guaranteed.

UWe9o12jkied91da/b purification? im a beginner so I dont really know shortcuts like a/b , acid-base I suppose?

For my synthesis I will follow basic purification with acetone or IPA, but if there is a simpliest and better purification, I dont say no

yeah okay I see, I will do it in my little garden, so for the aluminium, small square (1cm x 1cm) is good, not too fine?

I will follow your steps, thanks for all !

 

[ymaaah]

I would recommend to not do it in your kitchen if you plan to ever cook delicious food again there.

Get a working table, propper glassware and other heating sources than your stovetop.

The kitchen looks way too nice to ruin it with a chemical contamination.

KokosDreamsYeah you're right, my kitchen is too expensive to make sulfate amph inside !

 

[KokosDreams]

Yeah you're right, my kitchen is too expensive to make sulfate amph inside !

ymaaahDefinitely Now, as you're part of our group - we can help you get a budget small scale lab so you don't need to use your kitchen. Just ask once you are ready and if you should need help

 

[TotalSynthesis]

a lot of things can be self constructed if you're on a low budget, especially for this reaction with no external heating required.
You couold substitute your reaction vessel with a 50l plastic drum from your local hardwarestore. Then drill a hole into the lid to attach your condensor to it. Condensor can also easily be built out of 2 pipes, one with smaller diameter to fit into the other one and have your cooling water flowing in between those two pipes to condense the vapors.

Far from perfect but possible if youre on a small budget

 

[ymaaah]

a lot of things can be self constructed if you're on a low budget, especially for this reaction with no external heating required.
You couold substitute your reaction vessel with a 50l plastic drum from your local hardwarestore. Then drill a hole into the lid to attach your condensor to it. Condensor can also easily be built out of 2 pipes, one with smaller diameter to fit into the other one and have your cooling water flowing in between those two pipes to condense the vapors.

Far from perfect but possible if youre on a small budget

TotalSynthesisa plastic drum like this?

 

[ymaaah]

Definitely Now, as you're part of our group - we can help you get a budget small scale lab so you don't need to use your kitchen. Just ask once you are ready and if you should need help

KokosDreamsThank you very much, for you, how much is a small scale lab ?

 

[UWe9o12jkied91d]

a plastic drum like this? View attachment 7727

ymaaahyeah, make sure it's hdpe or pp or something with high chemical reesistance

 

[ymaaah]

okay im searching right now, I think I found https://aude-plastique.fr/produit/fut-avec-couvercle-hermetique/

 

[KokosDreams]

Thank you very much, for you, how much is a small scale lab ?

ymaaahThat depends on what you're looking to manufacture and also your personal requirements on equipment.

While lots of stuff can be improvised, I'd say that you can easily get a starter kit for some synthesises (small scale) from 1.000 - 2.500, where 2.500 would already be a lot.
Where it can get pricy is if you are looking to add further set-ups to your lab for purification (steam distillation, rotavaps...).

 

[UWe9o12jkied91d]

That depends on what you're looking to manufacture and also your personal requirements on equipment.

While lots of stuff can be improvised, I'd say that you can easily get a starter kit for some synthesises (small scale) from 1.000 - 2.500, where 2.500 would already be a lot.
Where it can get pricy is if you are looking to add further set-ups to your lab for purification (steam distillation, rotavaps...).

KokosDreamshow is steam distillation expensive bruh, it's a refrigerant, an adapter, an extra flask and water

 

[TotalSynthesis]

yes, a drum like this is fine.
Even if i say it works, please note that it is far from perfect. yields will be lower because your reagents wont mix that well. in a rbf, if you have a good reaction, the flask contents will be mixed by itself constantly if you have a good boil