Isomers and tartaric acid

[btcboss2022]

I think something wrong with graph.
If you use L+-tartaric acid(cheaper and easier to find)the D enantiomer(amph,Meth) will be in the solution not in the solid as there appears.
If you use D-tartaric acid(more expensive and difficult to find) the D enantiomer(amph,Meth) will be in the solid.
Thanks.

 

[G.Patton]

I think something wrong with graph.
If you use L+-tartaric acid(cheaper and easier to find)the D enantiomer(amph,Meth) will be in the solution not in the solid as there appears.
If you use D-tartaric acid(more expensive and difficult to find) the D enantiomer(amph,Meth) will be in the solid.
Thanks.

btcboss2022His scheme is correct. Salt is precipitated into the solid state. No difference, d-amphetamine l-tartaric acid salt or l-amphetamine d-tartaric salt. You can change acid and get difference isomer in the solid state with following procedures.

P.S. same for methamphetamine.

 

[G.Patton]

Ok, but even if it were like you said, which I don;t think it is, it would still be convenient, as long as ONE of them precipitates you have the ability to separate no matter which way

UWe9o12jkied91dI applied pictures there (pic 18). We will make a video with d-isomer separation to explain it. I think a lot of same questions will be there after video =)

 

[Davidrobinson]

I applied pictures there (pic 18). We will make a video with d-isomer separation to explain it. I think a lot of same questions will be there after video =)

G.PattonWhat do you mean under pic 18.
"We precipitate d-amphetamine with an additional amount of d-tartaric acid". I thought the d tartaric acid you used crashed the l amphetamine d tartaric salt out. How is it going to precipitate the d amphetamine left in the solution?

 

[UWe9o12jkied91d]

What do you mean under pic 18.
"We precipitate d-amphetamine with an additional amount of d-tartaric acid". I thought the d tartaric acid you used crashed the l amphetamine d tartaric salt out. How is it going to precipitate the d amphetamine left in the solution?

oscar412D-tartric leaves the desired enantiomer in solution, your solid is now your waste in this case, opposite for L-tartaric (the common one), you then precipitate with your desired acid. During both these processes you will arrive at the sulphate or phosphate, as the tartrates are not storeable

 

[Davidrobinson]

D-tartric leaves the desired enantiomer in solution, your solid is now your waste in this case, opposite for L-tartaric (the common one), you then precipitate with your desired acid. During both these processes you will arrive at the sulphate or phosphate, as the tartrates are not storeable

UWe9o12jkied91dI understand that. But if you read the procedure that is posted , here it is.
"Extract with 5 ml of petroleum ether and warm the solution, add 2.45 g of d-tartaric acid in alcohol solution to the mixture. Then add alcohol until completely dissolved and cool with stirring. The l-amphetamine d-tartaric salt precipitates. The d-amphetamine remains in the solution. You can repeat procedure of cleaning precipitate of l-amphetamine d-tartaric salt by methanol to increase yield."
This next bit i am talking about .
"We precipitate d-amphetamine with an additional amount of d-tartaric acid. We filter the precipitate, get the base of d-amphetamine, adding alkali to pH = 11"

 

[Davidrobinson]

D-tartric leaves the desired enantiomer in solution, your solid is now your waste in this case, opposite for L-tartaric (the common one), you then precipitate with your desired acid. During both these processes you will arrive at the sulphate or phosphate, as the tartrates are not storeable

UWe9o12jkied91dThat is on g pattons procedure, is that a mistake

 

[UWe9o12jkied91d]

That is on g pattons procedure, is that a mistake

oscar412yeah probably unless i;m not missing anything

 

[Davidrobinson]

yeah probably unless i;m not missing anything

UWe9o12jkied91dYe it doesnt make sense , wait and see what the video is like he is making

 

[G.Patton]

Ye it doesnt make sense , wait and see what the video is like he is making

oscar412I mean that excess of d-tartaric acid precipitate d-amphetamine as well. It is sort of a/b extraction. I think you can skip this step and acidify ether solution after first d-tartaric acid addition.

 

[Davidrobinson]

I mean that excess of d-tartaric acid precipitate d-amphetamine as well. It is sort of a/b extraction. I think you can skip this step and acidify ether solution after first d-tartaric acid addition.

G.PattonOk. But how can you precipitate d amphetamine with d tartaric acid, When you seperated
l amphetamine d tartate with this same tartraic acid in the step before

 

[Davidrobinson]

I mean that excess of d-tartaric acid precipitate d-amphetamine as well. It is sort of a/b extraction. I think you can skip this step and acidify ether solution after first d-tartaric acid addition.

G.PattonThere is alot of confusion around this topic. Hopefully your video sheds some light on it .

 

[G.Patton]

Ok. But how can you precipitate d amphetamine with d tartaric acid, When you seperated
l amphetamine d tartate with this same tartraic acid in the step before

oscar412I did it in equimolar ratio. For d-amph d-tartrane excess is used.

 

[Davidrobinson]

I did it in equimolar ratio. For d-amph d-tartrane excess is used.

G.PattonSo L+ tartaric acid can precipitate both isomers

 

[smallworker]

It sounds good this way

I have another way. I used L++ tartaric. I make the base oil and l++ tartaric together.
I make 1.4L h2o and put 700gr tartaric together. This mixture i put on 1L freebase oil.

After few minutes he became solid. I let cooldown the mass and will after few hours separated by centrifuge
We oil who comes out i make to ph11/12 to receive the base oil
And the powder how stays in the centrifuge i makr this with hot water and also bring with naoh to ph 11/12 to take the base oil

D and L seperated..


Some suggestion to make it better?

 

[UWe9o12jkied91d]

It sounds good this way

I have another way. I used L++ tartaric. I make the base oil and l++ tartaric together.
I make 1.4L h2o and put 700gr tartaric together. This mixture i put on 1L freebase oil.

After few minutes he became solid. I let cooldown the mass and will after few hours separated by centrifuge
We oil who comes out i make to ph11/12 to receive the base oil
And the powder how stays in the centrifuge i makr this with hot water and also bring with naoh to ph 11/12 to take the base oil

D and L seperated..


Some suggestion to make it better?

smallworkerAre you seaprating the watery layer from solvent layer before centrifuge? It sounds to me like your're wasting product in the water layer if yes, but maybe I don;t understand.

 

[smallworker]

Are you seaprating the watery layer from solvent layer before centrifuge? It sounds to me like your're wasting product in the water layer if yes, but maybe I don;t understand.

UWe9o12jkied91dYes i take off from the solid piece all water into filterpaper an than put together the water and the water from the centrifuged solidnmass.

This together i make with noah ph 12

 

[Davidrobinson]

Yes i take off from the solid piece all water into filterpaper an than put together the water and the water from the centrifuged solidnmass.

This together i make with noah ph 12

smallworkerIs your d amp/meth the solid mass

 

[UWe9o12jkied91d]

Is your d amp/meth the solid mass

oscar412yes, probably, he's describing the L-tartaric route. he centrifuges to remove as much solvent and l-amph as possible then basifies his solid product( d-amph l-tartrate) and reprecipitates as far as I understand, which is good

 

[Davidrobinson]

yes, probably, he's describing the L-tartaric route. he centrifuges to remove as much solvent and l-amph as possible then basifies his solid product( d-amph l-tartrate) and reprecipitates as far as I understand, which is good

UWe9o12jkied91dYer that is a good route.

 

[G.Patton]

It sounds good this way

I have another way. I used L++ tartaric. I make the base oil and l++ tartaric together.
I make 1.4L h2o and put 700gr tartaric together. This mixture i put on 1L freebase oil.

After few minutes he became solid. I let cooldown the mass and will after few hours separated by centrifuge
We oil who comes out i make to ph11/12 to receive the base oil
And the powder how stays in the centrifuge i makr this with hot water and also bring with naoh to ph 11/12 to take the base oil

D and L seperated..


Some suggestion to make it better?

smallworkerHello. Your d-amphetamine L-tartaric salt will not precipitate in water because it is soluble in water. As I wrote in my manual, you have to use alcohol for tartaric acid.

 

[smallworker]

Yess use L++ tartaric