Shake and Bake Remastered

[SoldadoDeDrogas]

This is rather interesting to me because of the minimal amount of AN. NaOH solvent(s) etc. Also, the light pressurization and constant burping. I guess I am kind of surprised you actually get results from what little ammonia gas that is contained and condensed. I can use 50g of AN and apply heat and cool and I wont see any sign of bronzing lithium for usually atleast 10 minutes, with heating. I suppose vast amounts of pressure aren't necessary so long as you can get the ammonia to cool and condense before it escapes. Calling this "the proper way" just because you're using a boro RBF instead of a pop bottle seems a bit of a stretch, though.

From what I have seen in my experience, it is baffling that complete bronzing/dissolution of lithium is possible? with such a small amount of AN in a basically open reaction vessel. I have been fooling around with this reaction for a while now and I noticed some of the 'hard rules' I was led to follow turns out, they aren't so rigid. This is almost contradictory advice for what I would've suggested, and yet, it works, apparently. Surely, the pressure greatly reduces the reaction time, but I wonder how the product quality is effected.

Apparently people are still salting out with HCl and aluminum foil also....

 

[uiawghdouawhdouiawhd]

aluminum foil and HCI form hydrogen gas though

 

[Ykushim]

any update? how is mdma going

 

[CARLITOBRO]

please if you can make a video on it even a small video cause the steps are sometimes unclear and i'm afraid of blowing things up ...please or even just pictures of every step...thanks anyway for sharing you're awsome...

 

[uiawghdouawhdouiawhd]

well to dumb it down its really pressure = lithium dissolution = good, u can hold enough pressure once u liberate enough ammonia gas then u can cool it and hold that pressure as the gas dissolves inside the solvent and the lithium starts to dissolve and turn bronze,

 

[MrDuffy]

This should be required reading for any one attempting to make their own using the S&B method. There is one area we differ at that I feel is important to discuss...

Years ago, I read somewhere that the use of the plastic bottle for a reaction vessel was ideal at the time, because certain ones could withstand the pressures required due to their ability to stretch. We know that the more pressure you can build, the more ammonia gas you can generate to fuel a reaction with the lithium. It may be my paranoia, but its hard for me to fathom that a glass round bottom flask is sufficient for that.

A friend of mine came up with a really nice reaction vessel that I'd like to share. He acquired one of those old school pressure cookers, the type with a lid that had multiple screws you had to tighten in order to seal it. The pressure regulator safety valve, as well as the pressure guage was removed, and a higher reading gauge was installed as well as a small ball valve in place of the bleed off valve. He opted to coat the inside with a teflon liner as his thinking was that the metal body of the vessel may short out the lithium.

We used this vessel successfully for a long time, achieving quite high pressure (150 psi, we were too scared to venture much higher than that). We found that the reaction time to be much lower when using higher pressure, it didnt take long to exhaust all the lithium. The one big drawback to this vessel was the inability to check in the reaction while it was happening without opening the lid.

Ive heard of certain fire extinguishers being cleaned out and used in the same manner, another friend made a vessel using 3" schedule 80 pvc pipe and fittings. He also Teflon lined the insides.

Edit: Also, aluminum foil and HCI does work, you must add a moisture catcher in line on your hose, rather it be a container with a dessicant or a couple of loops to catch the moisture it generates.

 

[BirchGoblin]

I'm confused on how you arrived at the amounts of PSE/reagants that you did... As I understood this reaction you can really fuck up your yield by under or over reducing your pseudoephedrine should there be too much or too little lithium. Same would be true I imagine if your ammonia salt and sodium hydroxide to ensure there's enough ammonia released to react with and dissolve the lithium.

Doesn't the liquid ammonia Birch require dry ice in order to prevent boiling off the ammonia which is also why no pressure is needed? Your ice bath seems unnecessary since your ammonia wouldn't have condensed but luckily for whatever reason enough pressure didn't build because you can't use a glass reaction vessel and run this reaction the same way you would in a soda stream or whatever. You're risking a nasty shrapnel explosion. There are some threads on The Vespiary that discuss potential modifications to SnB that eliminate the need for pressure, including adding ether which supposedly dissolves and contains the ammonia gas at room temperature. I'd honestly go back to the books and understand what the hypothesized mechanism of reduction here is before making modifications; and then if your goal is to run this without pressure search for those Vespiary threads and run your idea by someone here with a deeper understanding of chemistry. The Birch isn't something I'd be comfortable fucking around with blindly

This seems like a disaster waiting to happen. Did you reagant test your yielded crystals to confirm the presence of methamphetamine and not some intermediate/PSE mess? This write up sounds like nothing went right

 

[BlueDex]

You can use Ethylamine instead of Ammonia. Ethylamine works better and has a higher Boiling Point and is Easier to keep liquid.

 

[slimshady]

If Pseudoephedrine is 2g, are the other ingredients the same? Or are they adjusted?

 

[hirozaru]

at the end of the reaction, I filter the solid and i use HCl 10% acid (that's all I can buy...) to turn the freebase into an HCl salt, I separate the water layer from the solvent.
and I dry it. I often get something that's oily, yellow, or brown reddish. what can it be ?

is it possible that NaNO3 would be coming through the filter? its a by product of NaOH and NH4NO3 ...

Aluminum foil and HCl makes no sense... it produce H2 gas, and if your HCl isn't high concentration, it won't do a thing.
if you have high concentration HCl 35%, you don't need aluminum, the acid evaporates and will gas on its own.
I'd love to be proven wrong here.