1-Phenyl-2-propanone (P2P) synthesis from Diethyl(phenylacetyl)malonate

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Phenylacetyl-malonic Acid Sodium Salt From Diethyl(phenylacetyl)malonate
1. An alkali aqueous solution 50 % is prepared in advance so that it has time to cool down. Sodium hydroxide 115 g (NaOH) is dissolved in water 115 g and cooled down to room temperature.
2. The cooled NaOH aqueous solution of is poured into a dropping funnel and this funnel is installed onto a reactor.
3. Diethyl(phenylacetyl)malonate 800 g is poured into the reactor. The reaction is carried out at room temperature but a forced cooling can be used during the hydrolysis.
4. A stirrer is turned on and NaOH aq solution adding is begun slowly. Reaction temperature has to be controlled (the mixture is self-heated). As the solution is added, reaction mixture (RM) color is changed and thickened until it is become completely thick and lumpy. The lumps is broken into a homogeneous mass.
5. RM is moved from the reactor to a vacuum filtration system funnel and filtered. Phenylacetyl-malonic acid sodium salt is obtained.
G.PattonSir: How many hours does this reaction process take? Within what range should the temperature be controlled? What is the target pH value for adding sodium hydroxide?
 

G.Patton

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Sir: How many hours does this reaction process take? Within what range should the temperature be controlled? What is the target pH value for adding sodium hydroxide?
qwe111
How many hours does this reaction process take?
Hello, what reaction exactly do u mean? Should I guess?
 
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qwe111

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Depends on your reaction size. Main Idea is that you have to add it as fast as temperature can be controlled.

50-60*C is max

About 105g need to make it neutral and a little more to make it pH 3. You can play by ear with pH indicator paper during reaction.


Check your reagents before synthesis. Your cas 20320-59-6 may be are not so well.
G.PattonSir, I failed again!
I want to ask more carefully. How many times should 115 grams of sodium hydroxide solution be added? How long should the interval be?
What should be the pH value after adding alkaline?
 

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Depends on your reaction size. Main Idea is that you have to add it as fast as temperature can be controlled.

50-60*C is max

About 105g need to make it neutral and a little more to make it pH 3. You can play by ear with pH indicator paper during reaction.


Check your reagents before synthesis. Your cas 20320-59-6 may be are not so well.
G.PattonI obtained a solid, a yellow salt, by adding twice as much sodium hydroxide solution. I don't know if this is right?
 

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Sir, I failed again!
I want to ask more carefully. How many times should 115 grams of sodium hydroxide solution be added? How long should the interval be?
What should be the pH value after adding alkaline?
qwe111Have you checked your precursor?
Check your reagents before synthesis. Your cas 20320-59-6 may be are not so well.

There is no difference how many time. It's important to avoid the reaction overheating.
How many times should 115 grams of sodium hydroxide solution be added? How long should the interval be?
Have you added 115g NaOH to 800g of Diethyl(phenylacetyl)malonate? You add equimolar amount of NaOH to make hydrolysis with following salt formation.
 

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Have you checked your precursor?


There is no difference how many time. It's important to avoid the reaction overheating.

Have you added 115g NaOH to 800g of Diethyl(phenylacetyl)malonate? You add equimolar amount of NaOH to make hydrolysis with following salt formation.
G.PattonSir, I have newly ordered 20320-59-6.
I added 115g Naoh to 800g20320-59-6 and could not get a solid.
I did 2 complete experiments today.
The temperature of the sodium hydroxide solution is normal when slowly added, but a solid cannot be obtained. I tried adding more solution and the temperature stayed stable. The liquid suddenly solidified when about twice as much sodium hydroxide solution was added. And the temperature rises to 80°. Get yellow salt.
After drying, add one liter of water and heat to 60°. The mixture will foam a lot.
Return to normal after adding hydrochloric acid.
The oil obtained after 1 hour is on the bottom layer. No crystallization after placing it in the refrigerator.
Sir, please help me. what should I do?
Thank you very much! !
 

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Sir, I have newly ordered 20320-59-6.
I added 115g Naoh to 800g20320-59-6 and could not get a solid.
I did 2 complete experiments today.
The temperature of the sodium hydroxide solution is normal when slowly added, but a solid cannot be obtained. I tried adding more solution and the temperature stayed stable. The liquid suddenly solidified when about twice as much sodium hydroxide solution was added. And the temperature rises to 80°. Get yellow salt.
After drying, add one liter of water and heat to 60°. The mixture will foam a lot.
Return to normal after adding hydrochloric acid.
The oil obtained after 1 hour is on the bottom layer. No crystallization after placing it in the refrigerator.
Sir, please help me. what should I do?
Thank you very much! !
qwe111
Sir, please help me. what should I do?
Check boiling point of this oil. If it is not okay, steam distill it. That's all. =)
 

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Sir, I have newly ordered 20320-59-6.
I added 115g Naoh to 800g20320-59-6 and could not get a solid.
I did 2 complete experiments today.
The temperature of the sodium hydroxide solution is normal when slowly added, but a solid cannot be obtained. I tried adding more solution and the temperature stayed stable. The liquid suddenly solidified when about twice as much sodium hydroxide solution was added. And the temperature rises to 80°. Get yellow salt.
After drying, add one liter of water and heat to 60°. The mixture will foam a lot.
Return to normal after adding hydrochloric acid.
The oil obtained after 1 hour is on the bottom layer. No crystallization after placing it in the refrigerator.
Sir, please help me. what should I do?
Thank you very much! !
qwe111Does your solid product after NaOH addition has any smell?
 

qwe111

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Does your solid product after NaOH addition has any smell?
G.PattonSmells like penicillin. You will feel chest tightness without wearing a respirator. This smell will not evaporate for many days. Always present indoors, on clothes, on the body.
 

qwe111

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Does your solid product after NaOH addition has any smell?
G.PattonGood morning, dear Mr. G. Patton:
I was just thinking and suddenly got some inspiration.

I tested the pH value of a mixture of sodium hydroxide solution added during an experiment a few days ago. I probably remember it as neutral. This shouldn't be right. So what should be the correct pH value?

Dissolve the salt of 20320-59-6 in one liter of water, turn on stirring and heat to 60°. After all is dissolved, add hydrochloric acid. Reaction takes 1 hour. Should I turn off the heater after adding hydrochloric acid?

Looking forward to your reply.
Thank you very much!
Good luck with your work!
 

G.Patton

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Good morning, dear Mr. G. Patton:
I was just thinking and suddenly got some inspiration.

I tested the pH value of a mixture of sodium hydroxide solution added during an experiment a few days ago. I probably remember it as neutral. This shouldn't be right. So what should be the correct pH value?

Dissolve the salt of 20320-59-6 in one liter of water, turn on stirring and heat to 60°. After all is dissolved, add hydrochloric acid. Reaction takes 1 hour. Should I turn off the heater after adding hydrochloric acid?

Looking forward to your reply.
Thank you very much!
Good luck with your work!
qwe111It should be alkaline ~12.
Dissolve the salt of 20320-59-6 in one liter of water, turn on stirring and heat to 60°. After all is dissolved, add hydrochloric acid. Reaction takes 1 hour. Should I turn off the heater after adding hydrochloric acid?
Yes, it has to be.
 

qwe111

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It should be alkaline ~12.

Yes, it has to be.
G.Pattonmy God. No wonder it fails so many times. I wasted about 3KG20320-59-6. and several liters of hydrochloric acid. Hydrochloric acid is hard to get in my country =.=! I spent a lot of money.

The pH value of the solid obtained is wrong.
After adding the hydrochloric acid, I continued to heat to maintain the temperature at 60-65°.
I'm so stupid.

Thank you for your patient answer sir!
 

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my God. No wonder it fails so many times. I wasted about 3KG20320-59-6. and several liters of hydrochloric acid. Hydrochloric acid is hard to get in my country =.=! I spent a lot of money.

The pH value of the solid obtained is wrong.
After adding the hydrochloric acid, I continued to heat to maintain the temperature at 60-65°.
I'm so stupid.

Thank you for your patient answer sir!
qwe111
After adding the hydrochloric acid, I continued to heat to maintain the temperature at 60-65°.
it's correct
Should I turn off the heater after adding hydrochloric acid?
Yes, you should.
10. While the mixture is still hot,
This is assumed that the mixture is heated during hydrolysis

The pH value of the solid obtained is wrong.
I told about pH after NaOH sln addition

I guess your problem is with your 20320-59-6. You don't check it and spend reagents for nothing.
 

qwe111

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it's correct

Yes, you should.

This is assumed that the mixture is heated during hydrolysis


I told about pH after NaOH sln addition

I guess your problem is with your 20320-59-6. You don't check it and spend reagents for nothing.
G.Pattonsorry sir
I'm an idiot who doesn't know anything about chemistry.
My English is not good either. A translator is required. It may be a translator problem and I can't understand your answer.

Is the mixture self-heating?

My understanding is that after adding hydrochloric acid, the temperature should be kept at 60-65° for an hour. If the temperature is too low, you need to turn on the heater. If the temperature is too high, it needs cooling, right?

I found two new suppliers yesterday and ordered 2 copies of 20320-59-6. I will continue to experiment tomorrow.

Thank you.
 

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sorry sir
I'm an idiot who doesn't know anything about chemistry.
My English is not good either. A translator is required. It may be a translator problem and I can't understand your answer.

Is the mixture self-heating?

My understanding is that after adding hydrochloric acid, the temperature should be kept at 60-65° for an hour. If the temperature is too low, you need to turn on the heater. If the temperature is too high, it needs cooling, right?

I found two new suppliers yesterday and ordered 2 copies of 20320-59-6. I will continue to experiment tomorrow.

Thank you.
qwe111
Is the mixture self-heating?
Yes, a little. Nevertheless, you need to apply external heating.
My understanding is that after adding hydrochloric acid, the temperature should be kept at 60-65° for an hour.If the temperature is too low, you need to turn on the heater.
I'm writing 3rd time, yes, it is correct. You can heat it 60-90*C. This range is okay.
 

qwe111

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Yes, a little. Nevertheless, you need to apply external heating.

I'm writing 3rd time, yes, it is correct. You can heat it 60-90*C. This range is okay.
G.PattonDear Mr.
Add the sodium hydroxide solution and stir until the mixture becomes solid.
Correct Procedure How long does this need to be stirred? a couple of hours?
 

qwe111

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Yes, a little. Nevertheless, you need to apply external heating.

I'm writing 3rd time, yes, it is correct. You can heat it 60-90*C. This range is okay.
G.Pattongentlemen.
Another expert told me it needs to be stirred for 12 hours or more. I want to know is this correct?
 

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Hello, correct. Do you think he try to mislead you? =)
G.PattonNo sir.

I just trust you.

I think you are very knowledgeable! So I trust you more!

I made mistakes in my previous experiments. My mixing time is too short each time. I continued to add the sodium hydroxide solution when I saw that the mixture would not become solid. resulting in the addition of excess solution. and get the wrong stuff.

Now I'm so sad! ! !
 
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