Maximum temperature for cocaine recrystallization with ethanol

[DanTheMan]

Hi chem experts,

after washing cocain with 96.5% (190) ethanol i speed up the drying process via heated plate(3D printer bed) and a normal houshold fan. Normally the tutorials recomend 24-48h drying process but with 50-60 °C heat it is a matter of few hours. Do i degenerate my cocaine with that heat?
I've read the melting point of the HCL is around 165-195°C but someone stated that the bond with hcl can break and at some point before that and make my product useless. Is it true?

 

[UWe9o12jkied91d]

Products can indeed "oil out" but I can't say exacty why this happens, maybe somebody can chime in here, it may have to do with pH idk
Anyways, theoretically it should be ok as you described

 

[DanTheMan]

Okay, i did now a lot of expirements and can say if you heat your cocain over 70 °C you will break it. But if you stay below 60 °C you can speed drying speeds alot up. Eg. i can do an aceton wash with in minutes. The result will be confortamble to consume. The important part, is that you need to put your still aceton wet concain from dried filter in a breaker on an heating plate. Keep steering and crushing crystas still nothing is able to stick on beaker.
I tried ethanol wash with 70 °C and got almost inactive withe poweder. So two theoris. It looks like cocaine and ethanol react at temps over 70C with each other and build something not enjoyable or the hcl part break. Someone know why ? Could my product be cut with suger?

 

[G.Patton]

Okay, i did now a lot of expirements and can say if you heat your cocain over 70 °C you will break it. But if you stay below 60 °C you can speed drying speeds alot up. Eg. i can do an aceton wash with in minutes. The result will be confortamble to consume. The important part, is that you need to put your still aceton wet concain from dried filter in a breaker on an heating plate. Keep steering and crushing crystas still nothing is able to stick on beaker.
I tried ethanol wash with 70 °C and got almost inactive withe poweder. So two theoris. It looks like cocaine and ethanol react at temps over 70C with each other and build something not enjoyable or the hcl part break. Someone know why ? Could my product be cut with suger?

DanTheManIf you wanna speed up drying, use vacuum. Your cocaine will 100% safe and sound =) Ethanol and acetone dissolve cocaine hydrochloride very well.

cocaine and ethanol react at temps over 70C with each other and build something not enjoyable

They are not. You wash out your pure cocaine HCl and leave some impurities on the filter, I guess.

 

[Frit Buchner]

I've played with cocaine quite a bit and my feeling is that water is your friend here because water is H+ and OH-, all that H+ puts water into the pH zone of an acid which protects the partially dissociated C+HCl. Another factor is that once a liquid reaches it's boiling point, it won't get any hotter. It'll just boil harder until it keeps from the pan. This happens at 100°C( a little less usually, unless you are below sea-level.
I think ethanol does react with cocaine. It's proven in vivo. Your body turns cocaine and ethanol into ethylbenzoylecgonine, aka cocaethylene.
An ice cold water extraction is where it's at imo. About 4 mL ice cold water per gram, let it settle and decant. Cocaine is VERY soluble in water (1g/1ml) so that is why you use ice cold water, a lot of adulterants won't dissolve in it. Then it takes
seconds to evaporate 3ml

 

[G.Patton]

I've played with cocaine quite a bit and my feeling is that water is your friend here because water is H+ and OH-, all that H+ puts water into the pH zone of an acid which protects the partially dissociated C+HCl. Another factor is that once a liquid reaches it's boiling point, it won't get any hotter. It'll just boil harder until it keeps from the pan. This happens at 100°C( a little less usually, unless you are below sea-level.
I think ethanol does react with cocaine. It's proven in vivo. Your body turns cocaine and ethanol into ethylbenzoylecgonine, aka cocaethylene.
An ice cold water extraction is where it's at imo. About 4 mL ice cold water per gram, let it settle and decant. Cocaine is VERY soluble in water (1g/1ml) so that is why you use ice cold water, a lot of adulterants won't dissolve in it. Then it takes
seconds to evaporate 3ml

Frit Buchner

I think ethanol does react with cocaine. It's proven in vivo.

There is cocaine free base (in vivo), not HCl salt.

 

[Frit Buchner]

There is cocaine free base (in vivo), not HCl salt.

G.PattonRight. And cocaethylene isn't a Lewis acid eithe r its cocaine base and ethanol. A" transesterfication" that takes the methyl ester and replaces it with an ethyl ester. That's the difference

 

[Frit Buchner]

As far as " oil out" I imagine that to simply mean dissociate. In water for example, concaine HCL dissociates 50%, meaning half of the molecules break and become cocaine 1+ and Cl-. Cocaine 1+ is something you can read about on the way. It isn't base cocaine and it isn't the acid salt. It is the conjugate base of a Lewis acid

 

[DanTheMan]

I will try the could water way next time. Thanks

I'noticed something. I don't aktually need to wait for full crystallisation. You can start scraping as soon the ethanol is evaporated. I use 55 °C for this. At first it will be all like goo but it will start to build crystals and powder in no time. Since ethanol is made for human consumption, it's not that bad if some ethanol is left in product.

For more info see this thread: https://drugs-forum.com/threads/coc...llization-alternative-to-acetone-wash.169203/
To get back to topic. Today i used 85 °C hot water to get dissolved HCL back. After this the product still had something active in it. So i still have no idea about the corrleation of temeprature and the degeneratoin of cocaine.

 

[Frit Buchner]

Once I was stupid and used hot water to extract it instead of ice cold water. Something else also dissolved in the hot water. Some cut. It seemed to be sugar or baby formula, but when I evaporated it, it turned to sludge almost like caramel or melted sucker. I had no luck trying to get the cocaine out of it and lost a gram of cocaine. Use cold water

 

[DanTheMan]

The same happened to me. If you get brown goo after some point, you need to smear this in acetone. I use my kitchen scraper and an dental pick for that. The acetone will make the goo hard and crystal looking again almost instant. Crush the solid block while in inside acetone to get everything fine and powdery. This will look like sand or sawdust in the beaker. Filtrate the remains and let the acetone evaporate. Crush again everything that build solids. You will notice the color will change to something brighter but still not snow white. Your discarded acetone will look like amber.
Now you are left with a powder that could be acetone washed again or alcohol recrystallized, but most important, not lost. I decided to alcohol recrystallize it. My final result was not pure white, but it it contained still contained cocaine. I'm sure if i hat repeated with more and more acetone or do your water thing, i had a chance to get white power again.

I still think that was some form of sugar that simply formed caramel through heat.

 

[Frit Buchner]

Cocaine is slightly soluble in acetone so you lose some everytime. Eventually you lose more than you save. I've lost $1000 of cocaine over the years trying different ways to purify it or clean shit out. I've had a lot of success too, but when you don't know what is in it, it's easy to pick the wrong solvent. Once even with ice cold water, I had one solid that sunk and another that floated, so I used a syringe and sucked the water out of the middle. That was before I had a small frit buchner funnel and vacuum pump. That thing will amaze your friends people bring their shit over and share it with me in return for running it through the buchner. Ice cold water for cocaine and boiling isopropyl for meth. I can dump the bullshit out on the counter after and you can see exactly what the amount and consistency is. A couple months ago a guy brought his 5g of meth over and I filtered ou 1.5g of table salt. He made some angry phone calls

 

[DanTheMan]

I bought a frit buchner not so long ago. Purifing stuff realy takes people into buy glassware
If i get you right i don't need other techniques like acetone wash, A/B extractions etc. ? I only need to master the cold waterthing?

 

[Frit Buchner]

A/B extraction, now that is serious business. being able to do one is like tying your shoes, it's mandatory, but I avoid the shit out of it. I did an A)B on some meth last month and precipitated it via hcl dripped into sulfuric acid and the solvent was naptha. I done it on 5g of already-been-smoked brown stuff I pour out of the pipe each time. It was just home work for the gassing which I never done before. That being said I can get anything out of cocaine without an A/B. A triple wash with chloroform methylene chloride, even removes levamisole from the hcl without the need for neutralizing it

 

[Frit Buchner]

A/B extraction, now that is serious business. being able to do one is like tying your shoes, it's mandatory, but I avoid the shit out of it. I did an A)B on some meth last month and precipitated it via hcl dripped into sulfuric acid and the solvent was naptha. I done it on 5g of already-been-smoked brown stuff I pour out of the pipe each time. It was just home work for the gassing which I never done before. That being said I can get anything out of cocaine without an A/B. A triple wash with chloroform methylene chloride, even removes levamisole from the hcl without the need for neutralizing it

Frit BuchnerThat document seems to have been scrubbed from the web. Perhaps it didn't pass peer review. A shame. In it's absence I'll present to you this document which is the document that everyone cites from " the Microgram journal"when talking about levamisole/cocaine separation. Table 1 specifically

Next I will present to you this document from the Journal of Analytic toxicology that says 79% of samples of illicit cocaine containing PTHIT (levamisole/ dextramisole) contained 30% or less w/w, and 93% contained 40%or less PTHIT relative to cocaine hcl.

So 79% of samples would contain 4.1% or less PTHIT and 93 % of the samples would contain assumably less than 8% PTHIT, after starting at 30-40% after only 1 wash of the HCL with chloroform. This data point was derived by calculating the median figures between the 30% and 50% data points to estimate for the 40% point.
Comparing the data for 5 hexane washes in that same document one could reasonably conclude that subsequent chloroform washes would improve those figured even further.
Hence I maintain my position that a chloroform/water wash on the hcl salt of cocaine is a viable method for extracting levamisole from it.

 

[Frit Buchner]

The thing is, I've read 5 synths of -cocaine and according to what I read, pseudoecgonine is a lower energy moity than ecgonine, so it wants to rearrange but is sterically hindered. BUT if you add enough energy it will change configuration, which means it's fucked. This is all based on little chemistry education but chemistry lessons on cocaine are expensive as fuck. Last year I was evaporatoring some (2 grams) that I ran through the buchner and I was high. Like a fucking idiot I took my pyrex pie pan off the burner and to the sink and ran a little cold water on it to cool it off. Bye bye $200. It exploded, hit me in the dick and I didn't recover 1/4g

 

[DanTheMan]

Sad Story
I'm thinking about designing some parts that can be 3D-Printed for making A/B easier. It's look like you already did the some of the experiments i'm currently doing. What cocain purify teks can you recommend ?

 

[Frit Buchner]

Really the only one I say should be mandatory is dissolving it in ice cold (Distilled preferably) water. Just a couple or 3ml/g. Crush it (I like a deep well socket or AA battery) shake it a little and rolling pin it (in a baggie)put the water in it, give it a good stir. Let it settle for a minute and poor the water off into a pyrex dish leaving the sludge and evaporate it on the stove. This is cheap easy, there's no actual chemistry involved. It only takes 5 minutes or so. This exact same thing works great for meth too. Both are highly soluble in water (over 1g/ml) which is why ice cold water still dissolves it. A lot of things which dissolve in water still don't dissolve well in ice water. You can use a syringe or pipette to get every drop if you must. Try it. Weigh the before and after. I usually lose 30% and that's a lot of cut to get out with no chemistry.
If I wanted to do better than that, I would take the water from step 1, neutralize it with baking soda (make crack) crush it, flush it with cold water in a filter, dissolve it in non-polar and gas it with H2SO4 and hcl+h20 to precipitate the hcl

 

[SoldadoDeDrogas]

I have a question maybe you guys can enlighten me with here with your expertise. Once upon a time I had some coke of a seriously exceptional quality. Certain it was better than fishscale, but it could possibly be subjective. I know it came from a source in the carribean. It was pale yellow colored. It was dry but its consistency seemed kind of moist, like soft snow, you could press it up into clumps. There was clumps of a dried clay consistency in it. It was powdery/grainy but also like butter - sorry it is just hard to describe, haven't seen anything like it again. The shit even had little specs of dirt and stringy plant stem material in it - talk about "raw." Now, I'm not saying it couldn't have been adulterated, but I seriously doubt it.

So I was playing around with it, like the curious cat I am. I decided to throw some with some water in a spoon and cook up a rock. No baking soda. The shit oiled right up uniformly and flashed right into a rock even faster, didn't even have time to think about trying to group it up with a penny or shocking it with anything cold. Anyway, I am kind of confused about what you guys are saying about breaking the molecule / "oiling out" with excess heat. Is this what happened and some of it stayed behind as HCl salt in the water? Because I didn't add any base to it? This always confused me. I appreciate you guys, thank you.

 

[Frit Buchner]

I have a question maybe you guys can enlighten me with here with your expertise. Once upon a time I had some coke of a seriously exceptional quality. Certain it was better than fishscale, but it could possibly be subjective. I know it came from a source in the carribean. It was pale yellow colored. It was dry but its consistency seemed kind of moist, like soft snow, you could press it up into clumps. There was clumps of a dried clay consistency in it. It was powdery/grainy but also like butter - sorry it is just hard to describe, haven't seen anything like it again. The shit even had little specs of dirt and stringy plant stem material in it - talk about "raw." Now, I'm not saying it couldn't have been adulterated, but I seriously doubt it.

So I was playing around with it, like the curious cat I am. I decided to throw some with some water in a spoon and cook up a rock. No baking soda. The shit oiled right up uniformly and flashed right into a rock even faster, didn't even have time to think about trying to group it up with a penny or shocking it with anything cold. Anyway, I am kind of confused about what you guys are saying about breaking the molecule / "oiling out" with excess heat. Is this what happened and some of it stayed behind as HCl salt in the water? Because I didn't add any base to it? This always confused me. I appreciate you guys, thank you.

SoldadoDeDrogasThe fact that it turned to oil and separated from the water is clear evidence it was base cocaine. Dirt and plant material means it basically had to be this product. Who's name depends on where you are at.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocaine_paste

 

[SoldadoDeDrogas]

The fact that it turned to oil and separated from the water is clear evidence it was base cocaine. Dirt and plant material means it basically had to be this product. Who's name depends on where you are at.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocaine_paste

Frit BuchnerIt was coke HCl, I heated it up in some H2O without soda and that is what happened. It wasn't crude paste, I'm sure of that much. If that is what you mean.

 

[Frit Buchner]

Woops I fucked up here... You could sniff it/shoot it. It dissolved in water. I knew smokers who had to cook it if they wanted to smoke it. It wasn't THAT dirty, it was rather refined, but there was noticable organic material in it here and there. I'm thinking "fish scale" is probably the refined, recrystallized, pressed result of what this was.

SoldadoDeDrogasIt was surely base though, or mixed with a base, 10% or better, which is the weight of hcl compared to cocaine. Well I'm lost. THEY had to cook it but you didn't. But you said you cooked it, without a base, so... A Person would have to heat it up to smoke it. BUT! When you smoke it, the fist thing that happens is you heat it up

 

[SoldadoDeDrogas]

It was surely base though, or mixed with a base, 10% or better, which is the weight of hcl compared to cocaine. Well I'm lost. THEY had to cook it but you didn't. But you said you cooked it, without a base, so... A Person would have to heat it up to smoke it. BUT! When you smoke it, the fist thing that happens is you heat it up

Frit Buchner" Well I'm lost. THEY had to cook it but you didn't. But you said you cooked it, without a base, so... A Person would have to heat it up to smoke it. BUT! When you smoke it, the fist thing that happens is you heat it up " WOT?

It makes about as much sense to me also. Like I said, it dissolved in water. You could sniff it or shoot it. I dissolved it in water, heated it up and it came right out and rocked up in an instant without adding any base.
You coulnd't smoke it without cooking it is what I am saying. I wasn't into smoking but people I know who smoked had to cook it like any other powder usually adding a little soda to it. Perhaps it was mixed with a base and I didn't know - what about a sulfate form?