Methamphetamine synthesis from P2P via Aluminum amalgam

[G.Patton]

Can we replace Koh by Naoh ?

medosalHello, yes

can i use methylamine HCL instead methylamine

You have to get methylamine free base. Hydrochloric salt will not work.

 

[bndr]

Hello, yes

You have to get methylamine free base. Hydrochloric salt will not work.

G.PattonMethylamine freebase is a gas, in this procedure he uses methylamine HCL, the sodium hydroxide freebases it as its added to the reaction. So yes Methylamine HCL can be used. Its all ive ever used....

 

[WilliamK]

Methylamine freebase is a gas, in this procedure he uses methylamine HCL, the sodium hydroxide freebases it as its added to the reaction. So yes Methylamine HCL can be used. Its all ive ever used....

bndrWe are not using pure methylamine but 25% solution which is dissolved in water.
In this form, it's obliviously a liquid

 

[Doubleboil]

7. Methamphetamine free base is dissolved in x3 volume of dry acetone.


Can acetone replaced with ethanol or methanol or dcm?

 

[HerrHaber]

7. Methamphetamine free base is dissolved in x3 volume of dry acetone.


Can acetone replaced with ethanol or methanol or dcm?

Doubleboilacetone is strongly advised for precipitation purposes

 

[Doubleboil]

3. The reaction mixture is poured into a ice-water (1:1 v/v) beaker through a sieve filter (to get rid of solid Al/Hg), flask has to be washed off from residues of reaction mixture to a beaker. The reaction mixture in the beaker is alkalized with potassium hydroxide aq solution (120 g KOH in 250 ml H2O).
4. Then, the solution is extracted with diethyl ether (or petroleum ether) 750 ml.

3) potassium hydroxide can be replaced with NaOH?
4) ether can be replaced by dcm? Or?

 

[G.Patton]

3. The reaction mixture is poured into a ice-water (1:1 v/v) beaker through a sieve filter (to get rid of solid Al/Hg), flask has to be washed off from residues of reaction mixture to a beaker. The reaction mixture in the beaker is alkalized with potassium hydroxide aq solution (120 g KOH in 250 ml H2O).
4. Then, the solution is extracted with diethyl ether (or petroleum ether) 750 ml.

3) potassium hydroxide can be replaced with NaOH?
4) ether can be replaced by dcm? Or?

DoubleboilHello! Yes and yes. You can.

 

[Studenttt]

For safety, something that is most need!
Mercury chloride how safe is this to use in this synthese, also working withe large amounts

 

[Jordan Belfort]

For safety, something that is most need!
Mercury chloride how safe is this to use in this synthese, also working withe large amounts

StudentttYou will die from it. Had an fairly heavy mercury intoxination, in such bad ways it changed my vision and when I rested 2 days it was gone back to baseline but as soon i worked with mercury again soon enough (hours) my vision was fucked again.

Also my memory has permanent damage from this.


The problem is with people setting reaction with this, probably don't know how to get rid of the mercury in the end product himself.

I strongly advise no body to use this synthase if you are learning this. and only do with vacuum distillation of your end product. First know other methods.

 

[diogenes]

5. Ether extract with methamphetamine free base is dried over MgSO4. After that, a solvent is evaporated with a slight heating of warm water bath or with help of rotary evaporator with vacuum.​

William DampierIs it useful to wash the extract with distilled water to get rid of anz possible Hg salt at this point, before drying or is it unnecessary due to the distillation in the next step?

 

[Studenttt]

Is this synthese possible white dirty bmk or must be vacuum distilled bmk

 

[Jordan Belfort]

Is this synthese possible white dirty bmk or must be vacuum distilled bmk

StudentttCan be dirty BMK aftermelting, just make sure it's neutralized from acid with a strong lye. You don't need to use waterfree BMK in this synthese.

 

[Lordoftheshard 2]

Another thing everyone has missed your not going to get shards you have to do a resolution to the vacuum distilled freebase the tritate with hcl acid and do the acetone in the freezer to get shards else you will get a powder if you don't do this

 

[Lordoftheshard 2]

Also once you add naoh the freebase should come to the top of the reaction mix why do you need to extract just put it in a separation funnel and drain the water later off kerp the oil top layer

 

[Lordoftheshard 2]

Can you just dissolve the methylamine in methanol and then add naoh to make the freebase methylamine

 

[Lordoftheshard 2]

Also at Alkalization can I just put the rx mixture from the beaker into a rb flask and.dry Naoh then external steam distill it and and separate the caustic water and meth freebase in a sep funnel the fb should be clean from the external steam distillation then do a resolution to get the dmeth

 

[Lordoftheshard 2]

500 Gms Aluminium Uncoated Metal Powder 100% Grade 420A Fine Powder FREE SHIP
It's uncoated.and that's what the Mercury does strips the coating off
Can I use this instead of foil and mercury chloride

 

[Studenttt]

500 Gms Aluminium Uncoated Metal Powder 100% Grade 420A Fine Powder FREE SHIP
It's uncoated.and that's what the Mercury does strips the coating off
Can I use this instead of foil and mercury chloride

Lordoftheshard 2Good question

 

[Lordoftheshard 2]

Good question

StudentttHopefully.we get an answer from what I have read this should work

 

[diogenes]

500 Gms Aluminium Uncoated Metal Powder 100% Grade 420A Fine Powder FREE SHIP
It's uncoated.and that's what the Mercury does strips the coating off
Can I use this instead of foil and mercury chloride

Lordoftheshard 2
Sorry to say, but I don`t think this would work for several reasons. Hg does not facilitate the reduction by stripping the Aluminium oxide off (although it does destroy the coating in the process once it came in contact with the aluminium even at the tiniest spot). The reduction happens because Hg is more electropositive, which means that once a contact is made with the Al, Hg sucks the electrons out of the Aluminium, leading to the oxidation of Al into Al(OH)3 (the sludge you see in the reaction). It creates a bridge for electron transfer from the Aluminium to your product which is reduced (given electrons).

If there was no Hg the Aluminium would self-destroy in a very stormy way generating huge amounts of H2 in a flash. By the way this would happen any time if there was no Al2O3 protective layer as Al is very reactive and the oxide layer is the only reason Al can exist in air.

The Al powder would also have protective layer (Aluminium oxide - Al2O3) even on the tiny Al parts. The problem with powdered Al is that the reaction would happen all to quick, you would not be able to control it. Even when your foil is too thin, it becomes quite problematic if not impossible to prevent the aluminium from being consumed before your product gets reduced. Imagine this with the powdered form, it would just it itself up almost instantly.

 

[Ortist]

No need for HgCl2 in special, any mercury salt works, the nitrate even better then HgCl2 which is just the most common and working very well.

Metallic mercury can be used too, just if you happen to find some old thermometers or mercury electric switches which were common in cars or also in chest freezers where they switched on the light when the lid was raised.
Mercury metal is easily transformed into HgCl2, all whats needed is some nitrate salt, anyone works and only a tiny amount is needed to catalyze this reaction which works like this: Mercury metal into a vessel, cover it with HCl, 30% is fine. You can add some alcohol to have the mercury well covered. Then add a knifes tip of any nitrate you can get, all work. Warm it up a bt if the reaction is sluggish, do this in a well ventilated place.
On addition of the nitrate the reaction starts and it works like this: The HCl will replace the nitric acid in the nitrate and there is suddenly free nitric acid. Nitric acid attacks mercury and forms mercury nitrate which due to the HCl present is turned into HgCl and HgCl2.You can use this soup directly for amalgamation of the Aluminium,use some more as usual as some will react with the excess HCl, thats no problem.

OrgUnikumHCl will not replace nitric in Hg nitrate as nitric is stronger than HCl. If I understood you right . You either have to react metallic mercury with nitric acid to get a nitrate and use it as is or get a nitrate, then basify it with NaOH to get a mercury oxide (precipitates) then react the oxide with HCl. Another option which I used is to make Hg acetate (Hg+Acetic acid+H2O2) -> white precipitate, then add HCl uuntil precipitate disappears and use this soup for amalgamation.

 

[OrgUnikum]

HCl will not replace nitric in Hg nitrate as nitric is stronger than HCl. If I understood you right . You either have to react metallic mercury with nitric acid to get a nitrate and use it as is or get a nitrate, then basify it with NaOH to get a mercury oxide (precipitates) then react the oxide with HCl. Another option which I used is to make Hg acetate (Hg+Acetic acid+H2O2) -> white precipitate, then add HCl uuntil precipitate disappears and use this soup for amalgamation.

OrtistMercury + diluted nitric acid as formed by HCl and a nitrate salt (you WILL have some nitric acid due to the dissociation and equilibrium and such crap) -> mercury(I)nitrate. Reacting mercury(I)nitrate with HCl is one of the common ways to get HgCl2.

In the end the proof is always in the pudding: Just try it. It works.

There was some headscratching back then 20 years ago when Polverone brought this up at sciencemadness.org, but as he actually tried it before posting, and nobody doubted this, well, he is known and respected and he owns the board ....
.... over time heaps of people have used the method, also I am recommending it often since it was posted over 20 years ago and nobody came to rip off my head in all this time....

all good, no worries
/ORG

 

[Ortist]

This writeup is a total mess. Following it as is will give you 10% yeld. Or may be less.

1. Aluminium amalgam must be prepared in advance, it is important step
2. Add your p2p, Methylamine to amalgam along with isopropanol
3. Keep reaction temp <30 degrees
4. With 40g of p2p and 40g aluminium FOIL you'll get 100% runaway .
5. Add NaOH/KOH before filtering Al/Hg sludge, it makes filtering process easier and kills remaining Al
6. And so on...

 

[Jordan Belfort]

This writeup is a total mess. Following it as is will give you 10% yeld. Or may be less.

1. Aluminium amalgam must be prepared in advance, it is important step
2. Add your p2p, Methylamine to amalgam along with isopropanol
3. Keep reaction temp <30 degrees
4. With 40g of p2p and 40g aluminium FOIL you'll get 100% runaway .
5. Add NaOH/KOH before filtering Al/Hg sludge, it makes filtering process easier and kills remaining Al
6. And so on...

OrtistI did before on 200L drums, 100L drums are also fine, and did one pot reaction.

350-400 grams of mercury on 10L b (400 grams is really a lot aggressive), 15L methylamine 40% and then like 30L methanol.
The foil I am unsure, I had in the end made like 2/3 of a bucket full with scrathed/damaged foil (no balls) so it was that weight.

In the end it was to much foil.
Yield; 12L at PH 12.

Back then with methylamine, everyone knows there are better alternatives for that when working with, f.e., with Al/Hg

 

[Ortist]

I did before on 200L drums, 100L drums are also fine, and did one pot reaction.

350-400 grams of mercury on 10L b (400 grams is really a lot aggressive), 15L methylamine 40% and then like 30L methanol.
The foil I am unsure, I had in the end made like 2/3 of a bucket full with scrathed/damaged foil (no balls) so it was that weight.

In the end it was to much foil.
Yield; 12L at PH 12.

Back then with methylamine, everyone knows there are better alternatives for that when working with, f.e., with Al/Hg

Jordan Belforthard to believe . at 40g loading it is very exotermic so you have to cool the RM otherwise all your methylamine just escapes. Have no idea what happens when you have kilos of aluminium foil. It is a bit less exotermic if you use aluminium balls

 

[OrgUnikum]

Reflux temp.50c is this correct as my friend told.me.this also.when dripping in the p2p he said don't let the reaction mix go above 50c and slow the drip rate down if does

Lordoftheshard 2Reflux temperature is when it boils and thats depending on the boiling point of the mixture what means with a lot of methylamine in there it will be about 45 to 50 °C as thats when the water/alcohol/methylamine azeotrope boils. You cannot get it hotter without a pressure vessel. Problem is methylamine escaping, I already told how to solve this problem by catching and re-using the MeNH2 which boils off. At lower temperatures you wwill still have MeNH2 loss but also the reaction will take forever and a day or two or five.

 

[Lordoftheshard 2]

Reflux temperature is when it boils and thats depending on the boiling point of the mixture what means with a lot of methylamine in there it will be about 45 to 50 °C as thats when the water/alcohol/methylamine azeotrope boils. You cannot get it hotter without a pressure vessel. Problem is methylamine escaping, I already told how to solve this problem by catching and re-using the MeNH2 which boils off. At lower temperatures you wwill still have MeNH2 loss but also the reaction will take forever and a day or two or five.

OrgUnikumSo what do you recommend ratios and so forth to do the synthesis in 8h it say 2on here with the ratios provided here is rather reflux it for 8h to do the job properly