One-pot Amphetamine Synthesis From P2NP With NaBH4/CuCl2 (1kg scale)

[William Dampier]

The reaction with sodium borohydride may get out of control if you do not monitor the temperature. In addition, small-dispersed copper compounds can interfere with the purification of the final product.

 

[Johnny Ringo]

Kann man die kupferverbindungen verhinden und ist das produkt(base) geeignet paste herzustellen wenn man es nicht mit aceton wäscht und nur schwefelsäure hinzu fügt?

 

[Johnny Ringo]

Und wie kann man es am besten beheizen, da die kontaktfläche bei rundkolben schlecht hitze absorbiert und es sehr lange dauert wenn man versucht den kolben direkt zu beheizen.

 

[Sasha89]

What do you use for external heating to keep the temperature on 80 °c for 30 mins?

 

[GDC]

Metal dog food feeding dish with water.

 

[Johnny Ringo]

Bin auf das problem gestoßen,dass das wasser verdampft ist bevor es 80grad erreicht hat könnte ich es mit öl erhitzen?

 

[SelfExper1menter]

Hello everyone. I tried to make some amphetamine using this recipe on a small scale, but failed. Everything seemed ok, after drying my product looked like white powder with a tinge of redness. If it was amphetamine sulfate (which I was trying to make), the yield would be 84%. The problem is, it's not amphetamine.

Physiological effects
I tried 20-30 mg, there was definitely stimulation, but also it caused fever and, apparently, a decline in immunity: both times I took it for several days in a row, I fell ill with respiratory infections (first time I thought it was a coincidence). Another person that took it did not experience any stimulation from up to 90 mg, only some mouth dryness. Neither of us have any tolerance to stimulants.

Chemical testing
1 g of the powder completely dissolves in 10 ml H2O.
When I added excess NaOH solution to a measured mass of the powder in a test tube, I got an approximately right volume of freebase smelling of ammonia. I separated the freebase layer, dried it with CaCl2 and tried to titrate it with acid. As a result, I measured molar mass of the freebase to be about 171 (and for amphetamine it's 135). While my measurements weren't very precise, the difference is still too large to be explained by measurement errors alone.

My deviations from the procedure
1) When adding P2NP, I realized it was going to take hours, so I got impatient and immersed the reaction flask in a room temperature water bath. After that I was able to add P2NP almost all at once, and the temperature of the mixture didn't exceed 40-50 °С.
2) I was following the video, so I didn't evaporate the IPA and added conc. sulfuric acid to the IPA/freebase layer directly.
3) I didn't have any acetone at the moment, so I didn't add it before acidifying and I washed the filtered "amphetamine sulfate" paste with IPA.
4) IPA is less volatile than acetone, so I had to put my precipitate in an oven for several hours to dry it to constant weight. The temperature in the oven didn't exceed 80 °С.

So, the big question is, where did it go wrong? I wouldn't be surprised with low yield or no product at all, but getting a good yield of an amine that's not amphetamine?!

 

[OneTensionSkyRed]

That's what I was thinking. This reaction produces N-OH-amphetamine instead of pure amine. People can clearly tell the difference between their physiological activity.

 

[pekonias]

I don't anderstand what is happening? I used 300g NaBH4 2.07 L IPA, 1.03 L dH2O, 173g P2Np 22g CuCl.2H2O and everything went well - reaction over and I add 0.4 L 25% NaOH sol. to get (pH 13.5) separate layers but... there's wery little separation. The aq. layer was only 0.3L so now I have 2.2 L organic layer, more than starting IPA + H2O (2.1 L). So does organic layer now contains NaOH? The pH after reaction was ~12 and there was no layer separation so I added the 0.4 L NaOH sol. What should I do now? Add more NaOH sol. and vacuum distill? Maybe acidify to pH <=3 and distill. Please advice guys.

 

[pekonias]

Obviously I can't count, actually got correct volume for the organic part and also extracted the sludge with 0.3L IPA. It's very confusing when told to add NaOH to pH 12 when it's already at that after reaction. Also aq. part seems to small but it's mostly in the black mud. Going to go ahead with water aspirator vacuum distilling off the IPA and hopefully not lose all product like last time. I think got too hot 80C with -28" Hg vacuum last time. Maybe report how it went tomorrow if has any luck.

 

[OneTensionSkyRed]

You need to add more NaOH in dry form or at least concentrated NaOH solution if you don't want to heat RM from dry NaOH to separate IPA layer. The densities are similar and that prevents IPA from salting out. Have you destroyed borate adducts afther the reaction?

 

[two777]

what is the optimal temperature for a-oil, before you start the extraction/ crystallization process using sulfuric acid? Usually im working with room temperature oil, and adding acid gradually, by not extending temperatures above 40c.

 

[GhostChemist]

this is right

 

[pekonias]

Follow up to my previous post, copule observations made during the process I think are important to share. This was really my very first success at this. From 173g P2NP I got ~130ml clear oil. What I wanna say is that now, compared to the previous experiment, was very different at the step when CuCl added. Previously added it dropwise and the temperature didn't increase at all, no storm in flask and only gave test subjects a runny nose. Now had twice as much and better quality P2NP. Also 10% of the NaBH4 was added later, after most P2NP had been added but it don't seem make no difference. So the CuCl was added added in 3 bursts of 10ml each and very violent reaction was observed (~1/4 CuCl soln. was left unadded). After each 10ml addition the reaction almost came out of the flask but not quite and the temperature increased dramatically. The Rm was 3.1 L in 5 L RBF. Temp reached 78C after third addition and the surface / foam level stayed really high for a minute and the reflux from the two ball condensers poured down IPA/H2O like hell. Unreal sight but it happened and I think the reflux prevented temp. going > 78C. So I much rather want the violent reaction then I know something is really cooking and reacting. The organic layer was condensed in -26.25" Hg vacuum BP 37-38C. Vacuum dist. stopped when 1.8 / 2.2 L liquid was removed (BP. was 41.8C at end). Then steam distilled. First 100ml of distillate thought to be water and almost thrown away! It's A-Oil! Thinking drying some of it by mixing 50ml Oil with 300ml? dry IPA and giving it 20g silica gel and let sit overnight. How much H2O should the vacuum distilled IPA contain? Would be nice to re-use it. I measured its density to be ~0.8g/ml which is that of IPA (0.786g/ml) within the measurement accuracy?

 

[OneTensionSkyRed]

DO NOT dry it with silica gel or molecular sieves. They are acidic and should not be used for drying amines.

 

[keras]

So to cook 1kg of amph would cost more than to make 1kg 3cmc?
Becausd borohydride I see costly in poland , also p2np add up. While 3cmc is one main precursor.
And how these guys sell amp paste for less than 1k per kg. Where profit comes from ?

 

[dobrytowar55]

So then i Ask for most beacuse i knows on netherland production cost is between 300-600euro. How ? I dont mnie but meaby someone tell me herę

 

[dobrytowar55]

Hi. Can someone tell me what the cost of ingredients and equipment for producing 1kg is? I would be grateful if someone could tell me if it is enough to scaling up everything to get a larger amout or does that cause any discrepancies? Also can someone tell me what is the CAS of this final product?

 

[GhostChemist]

Find it in our Comercial Section

 

[OneTensionSkyRed]

It would be really REALLY great if someone could run a TLC analysis of the products from this reaction. I've read that NaBH4/Cu reduction mainly produces N-hydroxylamines instead of amines for alpha-alkyl nitrostyrenes. Because of similar melting points for their salts and similar boiling points, the only way to separate and identify N-OH-amphetamine is by chromatography. The N-OH product is also active as a stimulant but it is different to amphetamine. I wonder if this is really true.

 

[GhostChemist]

what source reports this information?
all compounds tested with qualitative and quantitative analysis
N-OH group can be formed as an intermediate compound if the experiment is not carried out correctly

 

[OneTensionSkyRed]

Yes, I should have probably researched this a little more before posting here, apologies. The source for this comes from amateur chemists and there aren't any official publications to support this

 

[OrgUnikum]

No. N-Hydroxylamphetamine is not stable in ph >7 it would go instantly to the Oxime and then back to the carbonyl say P2P.

 

[rampage]

is Copper (II) Chloride Dihydrate ok to use or does it have to be Copper (II) Chloride?

 

[GhostChemist]

In this synth dihydrate is used

 

[gmanaus]

I used copper sulfate and dried it till gray and it worked just fine

 

[GhostChemist]

If it is really works, then this is a good experience