KokosDreams

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Evaporate solvent and you can carry out steam distillation to purify free base.
G.Patton
What temperature is best used to evaporate the Isopropyl from the solution to not affect the freebase?
To carry out a steam distillation after the evaporation is understood

Depends on your skill, 70-90%. From 6.19 to 8 mL of amph free base. I don't know how did you calculated 50 mL :unsure:

I thought after 'getting rid' of the Isopropyl the freebase would be ready to go. I am looking to create 'A-Oil'/Amphetamine Freebase to create paste from it, not sulphate.
So I'd need to evaporate the Isopropyl to make it ready for use as the Isopropyl would be added by the people that would transfer the 'A-Oil' to speed paste (with Isopropyl and H2SO4).

@G.Patton thanks a lot for everything, you've been a great help so far!
 

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What temperature is best used to evaporate the Isopropyl from the solution to not affect the freebase?
KokosDreamsThe best option is use vacuum (rotovap machine). Temperature not bigger than 55-60 deg C.
 

Panzerschokolade

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First try with phosphorus acid: full success.
Second try, all the same but doubled reagents and additional cleansing of a-freebase/IPA mixture with NaOH solution (same conc as in recipe) in separatory funnel ended badly. It was taken to pH 6, indicator papers remained yellow, but there was no precipitate. Then i added some 99% acetone to this yellowish after-aciding-mixture, and some white precipitate was observed. After few minutes of gentle mixing it started to create one big sticky chunk of goo. It filtered well, and after rinsing with acetone it remained sticky and slimy. It doesn't want to dry, even in 105°C oven. First batch was odourless and super dry/bulky. Second one's smell is strong and is characteristic to amp. What did i do wrong? In my country I can't buy sulfuric acid stronger than ~36% so i don't use it.
 

UWe9o12jkied91d

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First try with phosphorus acid: full success.
Second try, all the same but doubled reagents and additional cleansing of a-freebase/IPA mixture with NaOH solution (same conc as in recipe) in separatory funnel ended badly. It was taken to pH 6, indicator papers remained yellow, but there was no precipitate. Then i added some 99% acetone to this yellowish after-aciding-mixture, and some white precipitate was observed. After few minutes of gentle mixing it started to create one big sticky chunk of goo. It filtered well, and after rinsing with acetone it remained sticky and slimy. It doesn't want to dry, even in 105°C oven. First batch was odourless and super dry/bulky. Second one's smell is strong and is characteristic to amp. What did i do wrong? In my country I can't buy sulfuric acid stronger than ~36% so i don't use it.
PanzerschokoladeToss it and start over, that sticky mess is never gonna dry.I suggest you add alkali to ph 13 like in the procedure, regardless of quantity you need full separation and a ph of at least 13.Try slightly heating your acid (applies for phosphoric only) before use, if that dosen't do it it sounds to me like too dillute organic phase layer or too wet organic phase.I would advise the use of a solid drying agent and/or steam distillation and/or solvent evaporation under vaccum.
 

UWe9o12jkied91d

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Toss it and start over, that sticky mess is never gonna dry.I suggest you add alkali to ph 13 like in the procedure, regardless of quantity you need full separation and a ph of at least 13.Try slightly heating your acid (applies for phosphoric only) before use, if that dosen't do it it sounds to me like too dillute organic phase layer or too wet organic phase.I would advise the use of a solid drying agent and/or steam distillation and/or solvent evaporation under vaccum.
UWe9o12jkied91dbe aware chloride drying agents are incompatible with ipoh
 

Heartburn

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Is there anyone that has experience with scaling this reaction to 2.5kg+ P2NP who would be willing to answer some questions?
KokosDreams At the very beginning of topic HIGGS BOSSON said:
Unfortunately, this reaction scales with a loss in yields. Optimally, I was able to load 100 g of phenyl nitro propene in a 20 L flask, with cooling in a basin with ice water, the solution of p2np in amalgam was added in 3 portions.
If we extrapolate his proportions for 2.5kg batch you'll need to use 500L reactor. I wonder how the reaction speed and yield will look if the nitropropene/ipa/acid mixture was supercooled at the beginning? Maybe if we use aluminium grain beads 0.6mm instead of foil, we can slow the reaction that much to prevent foam over boiling and use smaller reactor than 500L?
Cons of this solution could be very long reaction time, and small amalgaming area of Al grains may force us to add additional mercury portions in situ to keep reduction going. Eventually, if freebase is distilled, there's no way to carry mercuric ions to final product.
 

KokosDreams

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At the very beginning of topic HIGGS BOSSON said:

If we extrapolate his proportions for 2.5kg batch you'll need to use 500L reactor. I wonder how the reaction speed and yield will look if the nitropropene/ipa/acid mixture was supercooled at the beginning? Maybe if we use aluminium grain beads 0.6mm instead of foil, we can slow the reaction that much to prevent foam over boiling and use smaller reactor than 500L?
Cons of this solution could be very long reaction time, and small amalgaming area of Al grains may force us to add additional mercury portions in situ to keep reduction going. Eventually, if freebase is distilled, there's no way to carry mercuric ions to final product.
Heartburn
I heared that with scaling this reaction, it would be recommended to use even larger aluminium pieces to not spoil the reactor or cause a too heavy reaction once the P2NP is added. Anyway, the Al/Hg route seems to be causing too many issues when scaling.

In the meanwhile I found the NaBH4/CuCL2 route to be more suitable for a production on a larger scale with 1kg+ of P2NP.
 

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How do you scale this reaction??
This is one of the first reactions that I made when I first started and i did a small batch.
If you want to make a 1 kilogram batch you would need around 1 kilogram of foil, that stuff is huge in volume so how do you work with such a large amount?
 

KokosDreams

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How do you scale this reaction??
This is one of the first reactions that I made when I first started and i did a small batch.
If you want to make a 1 kilogram batch you would need around 1 kilogram of foil, that stuff is huge in volume so how do you work with such a large amount?
Curiousonion
I was told that this reaction should only be scaled to 100g P2NP, otherwise the loss in yield would be too large/the reaction to heavy with regular equipment

If scaled, then scale ingredients linear
 

Curiousonion

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I was told that this reaction should only be scaled to 100g P2NP, otherwise the loss in yield would be too large/the reaction to heavy with regular equipment

If scaled, then scale ingredients linear
KokosDreamsYeah, it doesn't seem possible to scale it up for more than that.
The sodium borohydride reaction is good but the cost of the sodium makes it illogical from a financial perspective.
 

Mo0odi

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In the video synthesis of amphetamine, reagents are used:
10 g 1-phenyl-2-nitropropene (P2NP);
100 ml isopropyl alcohol (IPA);
50 ml glacial acetic acid (AcOH);
50 g sodium hydroxide (NaOH);
12 g aluminium (in the form of sliced household foil);
0.1g mercury (II) nitrate (Hg(NO3)2);
2 ml sulphuric acid (H2SO4);
50 ml acetone.

Description of amphetamine synthesis video.
Before the start of the synthesis, the laboratory assistant prepared a solution of 10 g of 1-phenyl-2-nitropropene in 100 ml of isopropyl alcohol and 50 ml of acetic acid. Also, for the aluminium amalgam, 12 g of household aluminium foil was prepared, which was cut into small pieces with a paper shredder. It can be cut with scissors or torn by hand.

0:04-0:40 - Preparation of an aqueous solution of alkali. In this video, it was made in advance so that the solution cools down by the time the main reaction mixture alkalizes. Alkalinization proceeds with the release of heat, and if a fresh hot alkali solution is used, then the exothermic will be more pronounced and forced cooling of the reaction mass will be required.

0:46-2:36 - Amalgam of mercury nitrate. Amalgamated aluminium will reduce 1-phenyl-2-nitropropene to amphetamine. During the amalgamation reaction: little gas evolves, a grey precipitate is formed. It is important not to miss the moment when the aluminium is ready: this can be determined by the formation of a grey precipitate and by the increased gas evolution; this happens in 10-15 minutes after the load.
The water is drained without removing the gauze, the amalgamated aluminium is washed with two portions of cold water. It is worth paying attention to the release of gas bubbles: it is noticed that with the "correct" amalgam, these bubbles are small, and the colour of the liquid is darker; if the bubbles are large and the colour is light, and the reaction looks violent, the amalgam is bad. This is almost certainly due to a lack of mercury salt. Please note that mercury salts are poisonous.

2:37-4:28 - The most important part of the process is the reduction of 1-phenyl-2-nitropropene on aluminium amalgam. The reaction is exothermic, proceeds with abundant heat release. During the process, it is necessary to carefully monitor the temperature, in case of excessive overheating, to cool in an ice bath, it is allowed to add cold water to the flask. There are cases when the reaction does not start, in which case it is necessary to warm the reaction mass thoroughly, and with a properly prepared amalgam, the reaction begins. The reaction proceeds with the release of the smell of a boiling alcohol and acetic acid mixture. To capture vapours, a spherical irrigation condenser is used, the efficiency of which can be increased by connecting running cold water to it or simply pouring cold water into.

5:04 - You can rinse the flask with a little alcohol and rinse the unreacted aluminium with it to collect residues and increase the yield.

5:13 - There should be little unreacted aluminium left. By the residues, you can determine the amount of 1-phenyl-2-nitropropene reacted.

5:16-6:13 - Alkalinization. The reaction proceeds with the release of heat. The remains of unreacted aluminium will additionally enter into reaction with alkali and heat the mixture, as well as create by-products.
In the process of allowing the mixture to rest after alkalinization, separation into visible layers occurs within 30 minutes. The pH of the top layer should be 11-12.

6:18-7:23 - Decantation: collect the top layer containing amphetamine base in alcohol. It can be dried a little with anhydrous magnesium sulfate, and the slag can be additionally extracted with a non-polar solvent (ether, benzene, toluene), the solvent is then evaporated.

7:24-8:50 - Preparing a solution of sulphuric acid in acetone. It is made softer acidification of the product to be smoother. If concentrated sulphuric acid is used, there may be local over-acidification of the product.

8:51-10:53 - Product acidification - obtaining amphetamine sulfate. To the upper yellow layer collected at the previous stage, a prepared solution of sulphuric acid is added dropwise. Flakes of salt will form with each drop. This stage is very important, it is necessary to carefully monitor the pH, avoiding over-acidification. Acidification is continued until pH 5.5-6 (neutral). The over-acidified product will be pinkish in colour. In case of global over-acidification, the product will be lost.

10:55-11:38 - Filtration of amphetamine sulfate from solvents in a Buchner funnel under vacuum. At this stage, the product can be additionally rinsed with cold acetone by pouring it through the funnel with the substance.

11:41-12:28 Filtration using improvised means. Any thick fabric can be used as a filter.
The resulting product is dried in a warm dry place for several hours to remove residual solvents. It is recommended to store it in a vacuum package.

The yield is 60-70%.
HIGGS BOSSONDecantation: collect the top layer containing amphetamine base in alcohol. It can be dried a little with anhydrous magnesium sulfate, and the slag can be additionally extracted with a non-polar solvent (ether, benzene, toluene), the solvent is then evaporated.
 

Mo0odi

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Decantation: collect the top layer containing amphetamine base in alcohol. It can be dried a little with anhydrous magnesium sulfate, and the slag can be additionally extracted with a non-polar solvent (ether, benzene, toluene), the solvent is then evaporated.
Mo0odiCan you explain this part more because I don't understand?
 

Mo0odi

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Decantation: collect the top layer containing amphetamine base in alcohol. It can be dried a little with anhydrous magnesium sulfate, and the slag can be additionally extracted with a non-polar solvent (ether, benzene, toluene), the solvent is then evaporated.
Mo0odiCan someone teach me how to dry it
 

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Can you explain this part more because I don't understand?
Mo0odiHello. You can use English language only for publication. Please, read about Decantation in Decantation, gravity filtration and liquid transferring post.
Magnesium sulfate (MgSO4) is added to organic solution and it absorbs molecules of water from solution. MgSO4 is powder becomes solid piece, when absorbed water. You have to add MgSO4 until it will not absorb water any more.
 

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